Link pin question

[M Penta]

I had new king pins installed and then decided to install new link pins. With everything clean and dry, the originals had a tiny bit of play, and now I see that the new ones also have a tiny bit of play (though not quite as much). I guess it is just grease clearance.

Anyway, I have a question on the link pin "special washer" and Oring seal: The raised "special" washer with bump for control arm gap; it contacts the face of the control arm and the bump barely reaches the gap in control arm. I am thinking this can not be right, and will eventually crush flat under driving/steering load?

Should I leave this out (add a regular shim in its place) and allow the regular shims to contact the arm instead? Or will this cause the assembly to not hold grease?

I do have 4 new Porsche specific link pin seals to install over the shims, just wondering what to do about the special washers (my instincts tell me to leave them out).

This is a VW link pin kit (FEBI). I did find one post where someone said not to use the VW seals but it was not clear if this is what they were referring to.

I will of course grease the heck out of this thing regularly.

No pics at the moment, will try to post one later.

Thanks,

Mark

[David Jones]

I use the FEBI king and link pin sets and I assemble them just like the VW manual instructs but I also used them when racing a F Vee but left out the special washer then but I also ran 2 degrees of negative camber. I also use unmodified VW king pin carriers if I have too. If I were driving the car as a daily driver and covering 10K miles a year I would probably go with the Porsche assemblies which also have phosphor bronze link pin bushings. I feel if I grease everything at 1500 mile intervals the front suspension will outlast me but if authenticity is your bag then go for it. I cannot see them from the drivers seat and I cannot tell the difference when driving. I would though recommend you check the tracking when done or you may find steering is a bit off and tire wear can be accelerated.

[M Penta]

Thanks David,

I am not worried about the VW link pins wearing out sooner then the Porsche ones. I will grease them often and don't anticipate putting a lot of miles on the car (and the link pins are easy to change anyway).

So do you run the Oring and special washer in your street driven car?

Does it make sense what I am saying about the potential for it to crush down under stress? Have you noticed that the bump that goes into control arm gap does not engage much since the raised area that contacts the arm prevents it from doing so.

Maybe I am making too big a deal about this.

Thanks,

Mark

[M Penta]

"The Porsche link pin kits use bronze bushings, and the little o ring seals and special washers are not used. The Porsche uses a large seal on the outside"

OK, so just the seal on the outside, discard O ring and washer.

[David Jones]

Mark, I use the VW "special: shim because the original ones supplied by Porsche on my car are long gone. As I remember they were a different shape to the VW ones but performed virtually the same function but also retained the Porsche seal. As I said I doubt it makes a lot of difference. If the Porsche seals and backing plate or whatever it is called were available as a spare part I would probably use them. Yes there is a gap but so far it has not been a concern.

[Jon Bunin]

Does it make sense what I am saying about the potential for it to crush down under stress?
Have you noticed that the bump that goes into control arm gap does not engage much since the raised area that contacts the arm prevents it from doing so...

Mark,
You should use the original Porsche sealing discs if possible, and not the discs found in VW rebuild kits, which usually don't fit properly and won't retain grease as well.
Here is a photo of the correct parts.
If you don't already have these to re-use, the photo will show everyone what you're talking about.
Someone will have a bucket of used ones, and send you four for free...

[John Hawkins]

Hi Mark,
I agree with Jon, if you discard the VW washer and O-ring you should use the correct Porsche seal ring (metal washer) available from the usual suspects like http://www.stoddard.com/64441408.html and make sure you have a total of 10 shims including the Porsche seal ring (washer). Then use the correct Porsche rubber outer O-rings around the shims.

If you have a Pre-A then the Porsche sealing washer and the outer O-ring cannot be used because they interfer with a shoulder on the the C-link face of Pre-A stub axle. The C-link shoulder was machined off on later cars. U

The reason you cannot use the VW metal seal washer is because the Porsche control arm face does not have an associated indent or recess like the VW control arm
See photos.
John

edited for clarity-JH

[M Penta]

Ahhh, OK. Thanks very much for clearing that up. So the original ones sit flush to the control arm face, and has rim that goes around it and captures the outer seal.

I see how the VW ones do not fit right, and will not be using them. The raised portion takes the full load of cornering forces and shim tension, no good.

I'll look around for the correct ones, or maybe make them. My car had VW ones installed, and they were pretty beat up.

As for the shimming I think I am all set there. I measured it all by the book and dry fit everything to verify even contact. I had to move one shim from inside to outside on driver side top arm. I will redo all this when I get the proper washers.

Thanks for the replies and pictures, very helpful.

Forgive my noobness, first time ever working on these cars and not what I am used to.

Thanks,

Mark

[Dick Weiss]

Continuing w/this article,

You should make sure the C link/part has the proper face-offset of 7,0mm (std. spec).
There were times that some wear on the faces existed, the offset was less, and the link-pin shim assembly must be
changed to retain the camber angle. (chk. the spec. book). So, you must also find the offset of the trailing arm 'eyes'
since they should be equal to 7,0mm/spec. Then compensate the shims (still 10-shims/link pins) to suit the differences between the C pin-carrier and 'arm eyes' for std. camber angle.
Finally, the seal rings used by Porsche 356 shouldn't be used w/the VW sealing shim--the seal won't be retained!

Dick

[M Penta]

Thanks Dick,

I will measure the C link offset. I understand what you are saying. I'll check camber when its on the ground, should be fine.

I have 7mm control arm face offset on pass side and 6.5 on driver side, and shimmed accordingly. I assembled it dry with no outer seal and verified that they have even contact.

Yes, the VW washer will be discarded and I am placing an order for the correct ones shortly.

Thank you,

Mark

[Brad Ripley]

For years there has been confusion about VW link and king pin kits versus Porsche kits -- probably because there is a significant difference in price. Below are photos to show the differences.
On the king pin kit,
(1)the VW thrust shims are plastic; the Porsche shims are phenolic.
(2) two O-rings are added which go on the bottom between the spindle and the C-link

On the link pin kit,
(1) the Porsche grease seals are formed differently
(2) the caps for the grease seals are different
(3) the pin bushings are bronze, not sintered steel
(4) the thin shims are 36 pcs instead of the VW of 32 pcs.
Important: the bronze bushings add the most $$ to the kit, making it over $200 .

[M Penta]

Thanks Brad,

Yes, I had to figure all this out the hard way.

Bottom line is this: The VW link pin kit should not even be sold as a substitute for the Porsche. It has the wrong sealing washers and does not come with outer seals. At the very least, it should be clearly stated that these items are different and need to be purchased seperately.

This may all seam obvious to those who know these cars, but not to someone who has never worked on one.

While I do not care about the bronze bushings vs the steel, I would have gladly purchased the Porsche kit to avoid three seperate orders and time wasted.

Thanks,

Mark

[Dick Weiss]

Brad,

Only 36 thin shims for the 356 link pin assembly?
Your illustration shows the correct 40 amount according to the parts book.

Dick (Do you need some snow out there?)

[Brad Ripley]

Dick, plenty of snow that I can see out of my office window : Mt Rose 74-119 inch average depth today.

On the shims, 356-41-446, parts catalog says 36 pcs needed. Workshop Manual, page S-15, says quote Always 10 shims must be fitted to one suspension arm link; this includes also the sectional shim for the suspension are eye. quote. So, that adds/subtracts to 36 pcs.

Yes, the Stoddard website photo shows 40 pcs -- you get four extras!

[John Hawkins]

Actually it shows 42 + 4 sectional shims but who's counting?