It is currently Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:40 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 50 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Factory Bondo
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 8:33 pm 
356 Registry Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 3:47 pm
Posts: 2364
Location: Orange Co., CA
I use only single stage enamel on the 356s. Two stage on everything else. The real great part about the Forum, and these posts, is the diversity of opinion. Most of us use what works for us, even though in most cases there is a better way.

With me it is "The Old Geezer" syndrome. ......................Jim.

_________________
Jim Liberty


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Factory Bondo
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 9:03 pm 
356 Fan
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:25 pm
Posts: 18
Jim.....

Would you expound on your first sentence. Thanks!!

John

_________________
 


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Factory Bondo
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 9:05 pm 
356 Fan
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:24 pm
Posts: 6880
Location: 30MI WEST OF PHILA
Dan Epperly wrote:
Does anyone use enamel on a Porsche these days? Most use one or two stage urethane. It would be interesting to see someone get ahold of all the old materials that they used back in the day and do a complete restoration, it guess them they could claim it was an "original restoration."
Our cars are all too shiny compared to new.
Brian R Adams wrote:
I would feel a bit nervous working and breathing around molten lead.
My guy was near 90 when he passed. I think global warming got him.

_________________
'57 Speedster - very real
'59 Sunroof - mostly real
'60 Devin D Race Car-in process - fake chassis - real body
'63 GS 2133 coupe - very real
'67 S Original Owner - ultra real


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Factory Bondo
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 9:43 pm 
356 Fan

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:06 pm
Posts: 993
Location: Orinda, CA
I love lacquer. I have painted both my 356's in the driveway with acrylic lacquer, and it drys so fast you don't generally have a problem with bugs landing and trying to swim to shore. And if one or two do land, wet sand it out and apply another coat. I, like Jim, like the looks of a single stage paint on a 356. The air pollution folks are making it harder and harder to get lacquer, but it is still possible. Also on my '53 cabriolet there was a LOT of the factory applied red primer-surface, maybe not 1/8 of an inch but probably .040 inch in spots. I always thought that the early cabs had more surfacer than coupes, probably from not as good body tooling.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Factory Bondo
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 10:20 pm 
356 Fan
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:00 am
Posts: 7982
Tag: KTF
I know some shops that shoot the whole car in plasti-coat, a trick they learned from the Vette guys. Shoot the whole car thick, and then sand down to perfection.

_________________
I always need stories for my Barn Find column in the magazine, if you have a good story to share, please let me know.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Factory Bondo
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 10:21 pm 
356 Fan

Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:52 am
Posts: 3344
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
When I did the finishing bodywork on my car five years ago, the filler I had put on 30 years before was still remarkably stable and secure, and appeared ready for another 30 years. However, I replaced it with brand new filler. I have worked with lead, both on a car, and on the floor below it. I think part of the mystique of lead is that it takes a lot of skill to do it, so it must be better. As for paint, I felt that single stage enamel (urethane) showed the color more cleanly than what you see with a clearcoat, although buffed to perfection, I doubt I could identify which was which. Either way, far glossier than an original finish.

_________________


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Factory Bondo
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 11:26 pm 
356 Fan

Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:35 pm
Posts: 882
Jim Liberty wrote:
I use only single stage enamel on the 356s. Two stage on everything else. The real great part about the Forum, and these posts, is the diversity of opinion. Most of us use what works for us, even though in most cases there is a better way.

With me it is "The Old Geezer" syndrome. ......................Jim.


Is that acrylic enamel?

_________________


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Factory Bondo
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 1:19 am 
356 Fan

Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:44 am
Posts: 183
Back in my hot rod days, we would always brag about spraying 30 coats of lacquer for that "deep look." I don't really remember just how thick the paint ended up being, but it required a lot of wet flat sanding to get the surface really even and smooth. That was before I even heard of bondo. I guess we just used a lot of paint and in between coats, hours of wet sanding. It worked. Oh yes, I did use lead back then. Remember the shaved hoods? But I don't use lead now. And we can't legally use lacquer in California. Times change.

And for Jim L: what paint do you use for 356's that came with factory metallic finishes?

Jerry G

_________________
Jerry G


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Factory Bondo
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 3:01 am 
356 Fan
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:39 am
Posts: 3383
Location: Auburn AL
I love the diversity of opinions. Makes it fun.
Ok CJ, 8) ...just for kicks,...How many crappy lead jobs have you seen compared to how many crappy bondo jobs you've seen?
Total them up,...be honest,...and count the strip mall parking lot gems we've all walked past now and then.
Sure, decent work is decent work, but if every lead master was matched side by side with every plastic filler master,...you'd have an even debate. It's all the hacks that have plastered bondo over rust holes and filled 2 inch dents with the stuff that has jaded the field on the process. I can't recall ever seeing lead smeared over existing rust,...or used to sculpt a new fender for a 91 Nissan after an encounter with a tree. Hey,...I'm a luddite at heart, you have no idea,..but (oddly somewhat because of my tendencies, ie: occasional blacksmith work) I've learned that 'anytime you can avoid putting flame calibre heat to a uniform sheet metal surface,...you're ahead of the game'. Metal and heat are codependent for the birth of the metal, but thereafter have a rocky relationship when it comes to order and uniformity.
And,..I can plum my own house projects with PVC drains using a few simple tools, off the shelf materials, and consumate skill learned from years and years of working with other materials of all kinds.
None of them have leaked. I could do the same with iron pipe and lead joints,...but it'd be a lot more fuss, for the same dry basement.

Plus one for single stage, my choice as well. But I agree, put down right, it's hard to tell single stage from clear coat these days.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Factory Bondo
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 9:48 am 
356 Fan
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:24 pm
Posts: 6880
Location: 30MI WEST OF PHILA
My uncle owned a body shop that was written up in a Henry Manny III article for Road and Track and described as the best repair facility in the Eastern United States. Both Aston Martin and Ferrari had their US factory distributors in our area and both companies sent all of their new shipping damaged cars there for repair. I even worked there over summer break a couple of years in the late 60's/early 70's. I've seen the best and I also saw what they had to fix that was done by other shops and needed correcting. Back then there were many poorly done lead repairs and I suspect that most examples of lead work failing have been done by incompetent metal men. You can't train a monkey to do lead work but I'm not so sure about plastic. Back then plastic was horrible and failed quickly. They never used the stuff. Today the plastic is better but I have seen enough of it change shape or texture under the paint in a few years time that I don't trust it on anything that I really care about. Plastic is fine for race cars and daily drivers.

The factory lead on my original owner unrestored '67 911S hasn't moved in 48 years. My all lead Speedster is a-ok after 15 years of use. Every time I have a car done with plastic there is some small change somewhere on the car. That is my personal experience.

From an originality standpoint, lead is correct and plastic is not. From an originality standpoint, filler was not slathered thickly over major areas of the car. Prescott is 100% correct to report these deviations from original and correct.

Note- sometimes when lead fails on our cars it is because the floors and longitudinals are "gone" and have allowed the body skin to flex so much that the lead(or plastic) starts to flex and pop.

_________________
'57 Speedster - very real
'59 Sunroof - mostly real
'60 Devin D Race Car-in process - fake chassis - real body
'63 GS 2133 coupe - very real
'67 S Original Owner - ultra real


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Factory Bondo
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 10:57 am 
356 Fan

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:35 am
Posts: 385
Location: Colorado
Back to the original subject...

When I stripped my Reutter-bodied '60 coupe, I found no evidence of body filler under the original paint, other than lead.

Karmann used a gray body filler on the early hardtops that, when cured, is an absolute nightmare to either sand or strip.

My May '61 Reutter-bodied parts car had green body filler under the original Condor Yellow paint in places. Lead was still used in considerable quantities, though.

_________________
Jan Kolm
356 Registry #1066
1960 1600N Coupe


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Factory Bondo
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 11:35 am 
356 Fan
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:16 pm
Posts: 492
Location: San Antonio environs, TX
Tag: '63 S/R project, '80 911SC, '11 Cayenne
Lead is a well known cancer initiating source agent, we all realize why lead has been removed from gasoline and paints. Well, the poor person who labored with lead vapors all the day long, too soon enough went away, and no one really knew why, back in the day.

If we are going to play with things known to literally take the lites out of our eyes, for heavens sake, protect yourself from these things entering your system. If you think 356's are rare down here, don't expect to find any of them puttering around up there in any abundance.

Volatile materials are part and parcel of the way life goes and things get done, but, do be careful with your concoctions. For those who know they will be moving along soon enough some day, and wish to hasten the inevitable, go forth and lead your tubs to your hearts content.

Wearing a face mask is fool hardy. Although a respirator has its benefits, but, its not the solution. Parts per million is an often bantered about term; deaths per million is also a well used and a seldom well-understood term. We the Faithful are not listed in the millions, enjoy these toys folks and do your best to say out of the oncoming lane, and away from fixed and immovable objects.

I suspect this thread will live on well beyond we and ours. Allot of things were done differently back in the day. Fortunately, that's a part of history that's best left where its been buried. I've grown fond of this lively tub association, live long and prosper yea foolhardy and Faithful friends.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Factory Bondo
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:21 pm 
356 Fan

Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:58 pm
Posts: 145
Location: Northeast / Boston Metro
We use lead on all hood, door, and trunk gaps, but also use plastic in small amounts.
Not many people could afford to metal finish a car to perfection, but it can be done.

_________________


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Factory Bondo
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:37 am 
356 Fan
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:15 am
Posts: 930
Location: Tucson, AZ
Here is an example of a new and expensive restoration with a "lead problem."


Attachments:
Why Take Lead Out 001.jpeg
Why Take Lead Out 001.jpeg [ 1.78 MiB | Viewed 790 times ]

_________________
STP
Steve Proctor
Member Since 1977
VIN 84757
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Factory Bondo
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 12:19 pm 
356 Fan
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:24 pm
Posts: 6880
Location: 30MI WEST OF PHILA
Done by an incompetent. I don't have the expertise to say what was done wrong, bad materials, flux not boiled away, or whatever it is that the real craftsmen do right. I do know that the edges of the gaps were done incorrectly or the painter knocked the edge off after the metal man finished. The transition around the corner of the gap should be more square. Not absolutely razor sharp but far from being as round as shown. I mention the painter because they always want to sand the doors on stands and off the car which totally screws up the metal work. A 356 done right should look like a single block of steel with the door openings cut in as though they were cut by a fine laser.

_________________
'57 Speedster - very real
'59 Sunroof - mostly real
'60 Devin D Race Car-in process - fake chassis - real body
'63 GS 2133 coupe - very real
'67 S Original Owner - ultra real


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 50 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bob Salvin, Doug McDonnell, Google [Bot], Ron Dohmeyer


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group