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 Post subject: Re: Factory Bondo
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:44 am 
356 Fan

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Location: Northeast / Boston Metro
C J Murray wrote:
Done by an incompetent. I don't have the expertise to say what was done wrong, bad materials, flux not boiled away, or whatever it is that the real craftsmen do right. I do know that the edges of the gaps were done incorrectly or the painter knocked the edge off after the metal man finished. The transition around the corner of the gap should be more square. Not absolutely razor sharp but far from being as round as shown. I mention the painter because they always want to sand the doors on stands and off the car which totally screws up the metal work. A 356 done right should look like a single block of steel with the door openings cut in as though they were cut by a fine laser.



CJ, you'd be surprised how sharp the edges actually were. We have an original paint '58 Coupe here, and every 356 guy who looks at it is blown away about how sharp the edges are. Just as you said, it looks like a single block of steel with laser cut lines.
ps..I'm going to have to steal that line!

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 Post subject: Re: Factory Bondo
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:34 pm 
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Go ahead Alex, use the line any time. :D I need to visit your shop sometime.

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 Post subject: Re: Factory Bondo
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:24 pm 
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Here's an illustration of how forgiving lacquer is. A relatively simple task, on a flat surface, but it still amazes me, what can be done with lacquer:

http://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Trade_Sec ... newsletter

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 Post subject: Re: Factory Bondo
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:12 pm 
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I am currently working on an early 911 and just replaced the drivers side latch door panel. I had to remove the factory lead from the leading edge of the fender to weld the panel to the fender edge. I hope the picture shows just how thick the factory lead is. It is almost 1/4 inch thick. If that much bondo would be on a restoration project the final job, including the paint, would get eaten alive by concourse judges or by the leading auction houses for being too thick. I guess if it is factory lead it is OK, but using modern bondo is not? I hope the attachment gets posted correctly (it should be rotated) and can show just how thick the lead is.

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 Post subject: Re: Factory Bondo
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:20 pm 
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Jerry, you're working on a crashed car. They didn't have seams over the wheel arches. I doubt that is factory lead. Experts?

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 Post subject: Re: Factory Bondo
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:26 pm 
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Great point, CJ Only the good Lord knows what has happened to these cars over their 50 years. I do know that almost every one of my "new" cars that I have owned have, almost without exception, been in some sort of an accident. This particular 1967 911 has no history that I know of. The places that are leaded are under various coats of stuff from bondo, newspaper filler, builders foam and epoxy. I made the assumption (always bad) that the lead was original, based on the other crap over it. Perhaps it was from an early accident and repaired by a good body shop. It is now hard to believe that people treated these cars so shabbily, but at that time they were just old cars. I remember one instance in 1970 a friend in Monterey bought a rough Carrera Speedster for under a thousand bucks. I hope he kept it.

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 Post subject: Re: Factory Bondo
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:45 pm 
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I think the 911s were pretty much made from stampings that did not need much finishing. It was more of a modern era body. The '67 cars did have front fenders that were numberer to the car after they were fitted and removed for paint. I know they were leaded to fit the rest of the car but not thickly leaded.

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 Post subject: Re: Factory Bondo
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:01 am 
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I'll trial fit the door on tomorrow and see just how far off the fender matches it. The door is not damaged and should tell me just how far off the fender is, due to earlier damage. And yes, the lead will go, even though it was a very good job. Lots of hammer and dolly work ahead, I'm thinking. Trying to get the offending fender to "skim coat" standard.

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 Post subject: Re: Factory Bondo
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:21 pm 
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Another great example today. While working on an A Cab I came upon lead that was thick, like real thick. You can see it here, the penny is there to show scale. This was at the base of the windshield.
Remember the Factory used bondo, they just called it lead, because it was the 50s.


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 Post subject: Re: Factory Bondo
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:35 pm 
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Adam Wright wrote:
Another great example today. While working on an A Cab I came upon lead that was thick, like real thick. You can see it here, the penny is there to show scale. This was at the base of the windshield.
Remember the Factory used bondo, they just called it lead, because it was the 50s.


I'm doing a 56 Karmann Ghia now and was doing some welding by the rear door jam and a glob of lead that could fill a soda bottle cap oozed out. I almost called the County Hazmat team!

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 Post subject: Re: Factory Bondo
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:39 pm 
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Dan Epperly wrote:
Adam Wright wrote:
Another great example today. While working on an A Cab I came upon lead that was thick, like real thick. You can see it here, the penny is there to show scale. This was at the base of the windshield.
Remember the Factory used bondo, they just called it lead, because it was the 50s.


I'm doing a 56 Karmann Ghia now and was doing some welding by the rear door jam and a glob of lead that could fill a soda bottle cap oozed out. I almost called the County Hazmat team!

Don't do that, I can use it for my son's pinewood derby car! Just kidding.


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 Post subject: Re: Factory Bondo
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:28 pm 
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Adam Wright wrote:
Another great example today. While working on an A Cab I came upon lead that was thick, like real thick. You can see it here, the penny is there to show scale. This was at the base of the windshield.
Remember the Factory used bondo, they just called it lead, because it was the 50s.


No bondo is not lead ,come on you don't really believe that.Here are some pics of a recent restoration. It's a 59 A cab. Not much lead used but beautifully applied. Your example looks too sloppy to be the factory standards I've witnessed and I've stripped a few .


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 Post subject: Re: Factory Bondo
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:40 am 
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Max, correct! Reutter employed craftsmen, artists.

For some reason that I do not understand many today forget that lead was used by mainstream body shops well into the 1970s until plastic finally became universal for production(crash repair) body work. Plastic began to be popular in the late 1950s but it took around 20 years before "everybody" was using it. My point is that many butcher crash repairs were done using lead after our cars left Reutter. I saw this first hand when I worked summers at my uncle's Molin Body Shop. We worked on high end cars and were the factory repair shop for Aston Martin in the US. I saw our metal men fix poor lead work done by other shops and it was shocking. Give proper credit to the butchers, not Reutter.

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 Post subject: Re: Factory Bondo
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:30 pm 
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I think you're right, Dan. My car was restored 14 years ago and still looks fantastic. I can't imagine it's an enamel paint.

Chuck

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 Post subject: Re: Factory Bondo
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:01 am 
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Jerry Garwick wrote:
I am currently working on an early 911 and just replaced the drivers side latch door panel. I had to remove the factory lead from the leading edge of the fender to weld the panel to the fender edge. I hope the picture shows just how thick the factory lead is. It is almost 1/4 inch thick. If that much bondo would be on a restoration project the final job, including the paint, would get eaten alive by concourse judges or by the leading auction houses for being too thick. I guess if it is factory lead it is OK, but using modern bondo is not? I hope the attachment gets posted correctly (it should be rotated) and can show just how thick the lead is.

Attachment:
IMG_1266.JPG



Allmetal over lead looks to me...plastic based filler that contains metal particles. The factory did use minor applications of plastic on the later 356's to correct imperfections in leaded areas, primarily on door latch posts.

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