Issue with the latest version of the 123 ignition

[jason West]

I Just installed a new 123 ignition last week,

I also had some issues.

First Issue - was the unit they sent me was the VW- with settings for Porsche 356, 912
They have a sec. one for Porsche that has a 356, 912 setting also.
When I looked at the manual under Porsche I set the wrong advance for wrong model. Should be C instead of 6.

Second issue was the washer that was supplied was preventing me from installing the shaft firmly down. as I tightened the clamp it would raise the distributor up, cause a little rattle in the engine. I removed that special washer reinstalled, I set my top at 32 at 3100,

Now everything is running strong.


Jason

[Ed Madak]

I initially set the total advance to 32* but have since bumped it up to 34* with no ill effects. The advance curve seems correct as verified with a degree wheel and tach/dwell meter. I have not tried the "C" curve that is recommended for the 356 in the booklet as that is the curve of a Bosch 018. I'm very happy with this unit as the car idles and runs smoother and goes back to a steady idle without hunting.
Hope this helps.

Hi Don
If you do go to curve "C" it will get you one more degree of max advance at 35 degrees and it will start your advance earlier at 800. Just my 2 cents and running what you are set at works too.

[C J Murray]

All the maps should start the car. Check the install/timing procedure.

[Dave Wildrick]

Got my new 123 ignition up and running in my other (64) C coupe over the weekend--set on advance curve "C."
But I discovered that you really have to follow the instructions when setting these up.

I pulled my old distributor with the motor at TDC on #1, put in the 123, and set the crank pulley at about 3 degrees advance.
Then I rotated the 123 body clockwise till the green LED just came on through one of the 4 holes in the metal plate below the rotor.
Bolted it down, connected all the wires, tried to fire it up and nothing happened.

That's because, as Walt Nolte noted above, you have to rotate the body of the 123 counterclockwise till you see the LED light up; the light comes through a different hole in the plate if you go clockwise, and the engine won't start.
After uttering a few salty comments, I figured it out by closely studying the 123 that IS working on my 65C coupe.

[C J Murray]

Dave, have you checked the actual timing with a light at idle and 3300rpm? I am curious about it's accuracy.

[Ed Madak]

Good News Dave

So Two things to remember are

#1) Verify the product ID is the same as the section of the instruction manual you are referencing for curve selection.

#2) Follow line #10 in the instruction manual otherwise the rotor is mis aligned and a non starting condition will occur. The emphasis is on "OPPOSITE" direction.

Thanks to all for their diligent efforts. This will help ease the install for others.

[Wes Bender]

Now that DID hurt my ears......

Wes

[C J Murray]

Dave and all 123 owners!!!!!

There is conflicting and inaccurate information in the 123 instructions. Here is part of the answer to many questions I sent them. I received this from Holland this morning...

Indeed the 35 degrees of curve C in the VW-R are not correct. ( so in this
case you have to choose curve D )
Curve D, 1600 rpm advance start is a misprint, this should be 800 rpm.
I agree this is very confusing.

35* is too much! Use curve D if you have the "VW" 123.

More information to follow!

[DonCichocki]

See post #3 above. "D" works fine, checked with a degree wheel and timing light.

[Dave Wildrick]

Dave, have you checked the actual timing with a light at idle and 3300rpm? I am curious about it's accuracy.

I have not checked this on the new 123.
On Sunday, I did take a quick look at the advance at idle (700 rpm) on the older 123 on my 65C coupe, using H. Pellow's suggestion of placing a series of 3 half-inch (approx. 10 degree) marks to the right of the TDC notch. With a standard (non-digital) timing light, it was about 10 degrees advanced, when set statically to about 5 degrees advance.
I will recheck advance at idle and at 3300 rpm on the new 123 on my 64C, using my fancier Equus digital light, which requires 12V and takes longer to connect.

As you point out, I may need to switch to curve "D" if the total advance is too much.

[DonCichocki]

Total advance is more important than the idle setting, I hope others will chime in on this.

[Ed Madak]

Hi Don
You are correct! If you have ever dismantled an engine that had too much timing it is not a pretty sight. Looks like someone has beaten the pistons with a ball peen hammer. Catastrophic to say the least when holes are punched through and bits of aluminum are spit out through the exhaust. 30 degrees is recommended maximum advance and is what is listed in the Porsche 4-R and 4-R-V units. In fact by rotating the distributor just like you do with a conventional points type you could slow the timing by a couple degrees and it wouldn't hurt.
Of course the easiest way to manipulate any point along the curve is to use a TUNE model.
I don't mean to hijack your point but clarify your point and show options available.
You have a great bunch of knowledgeable members. Respectfully submitted. Ed

[David Jones]

Ed,
I hate to do this but what you wrote can be confusing if you do not differentiate between degrees of distributor advance and actual full advance. 35 degrees of advance at 3100 rpm would be correct which would be 30 degrees of distributor advance with 5 degrees of initial static advance dialed in to start.

[Ed Madak]

Hi Dave
We will always refer to Max crankshaft degrees which is double the distributor degrees. So in this case if you want to refer distributor degrees it would be 15 degrees. 8)

[C J Murray]

Supposedly, when you install the 123 distributor per the instructions, you will have fire at 5*idle and 35*full. This causes confusion because the spec chart says 30* which is the total number of degrees that the timing is changed by the distributor from idle to full advance. I am sure this is as 123 says BUT I believe nothing until I have seen it with my own eyes. You must put a timing light on the engine and confirm what idle and full timing you ACTUALLY have is correct. Just the slack in your distributor drive gear will allow for inaccuracy. Trust but verify!