Mahle Piston and Cylinder Set Q

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Carl Bauer
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Mahle Piston and Cylinder Set Q

#1 Post by Carl Bauer » Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:21 pm

Looking for any info on this piston and cylinder set of 4. Obviously made by Mahle. ~74mm bore. I need to get a new battery for my caliper and just measured with a ruler this evening and will get a more accurate measurement in the morning.

The Mahle box is really knackered and is pretty unhelpful. It does say '1500' but... who knows. P&C's in Porsche bags. Wrist pins included.
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Ron LaDow
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Re: Mahle Piston and Cylinder Set Q

#2 Post by Ron LaDow » Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:31 pm

The spec book says the '50 -'53 1500 engines were 74mm bore X 80mm stroke; I'm no authority on those vintages, but I'd bet that's a 2-piece case.
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Re: Mahle Piston and Cylinder Set Q

#3 Post by Alan Hall » Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:07 pm

No, the 1500 2-pc case motors were 74mm stroke by 80mm bore. The late 1300 motors were 74mm stroke by 74.5 mm bore, that is probably what these p&c's are. Would need to see more photos of the cylinders to tell if they are for a 2-pc case or a 3-pc case. First guess would be 1300 normals for a 3-pc case motor.

Alan

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Re: Mahle Piston and Cylinder Set Q

#4 Post by Carl Bauer » Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:57 pm

Thanks guys. Alan, I will get a few more pics of the cylinders up tomorrow.
Alan Hall wrote:No, the 1500 2-pc case motors were 74mm stroke by 80mm bore. The late 1300 motors were 74mm stroke by 74.5 mm bore, that is probably what these p&c's are. Would need to see more photos of the cylinders to tell if they are for a 2-pc case or a 3-pc case. First guess would be 1300 normals for a 3-pc case motor.

Alan
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Ron LaDow
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Re: Mahle Piston and Cylinder Set Q

#5 Post by Ron LaDow » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:23 pm

Alan Hall wrote:No, the 1500 2-pc case motors were 74mm stroke by 80mm bore. Alan
My mistake. The top of the column is labeled "Stroke/Bore" rather than the other way 'round. Thanks, Alan.
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Re: Mahle Piston and Cylinder Set Q

#6 Post by Jon Bunin » Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:48 am

Alan Hall wrote:Would need to see more photos of the cylinders to tell if they are for a 2-pc case or a 3-pc case.
You can tell by measuring the head stud hole spacings.
Center to center, 2-pc case head stud spacings are roughly 67mm by 76mm, 3-pc case head stud spacings roughly 73mm by 82mm.
The 1600 3-pc cases I have here have 90mm cylinder spigots, the 2-pc cases 86mm cylinder spigots.
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Re: Mahle Piston and Cylinder Set Q

#7 Post by James Davies » Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:19 am

Yes, these look like 1300 normal P&Cs for the 3-piece case given the relief in the piston top and the thickness of the cylinder wall. Didn't the 1300 pistons for the 2-piece case have an odd, asymmetric "nosed" shape?

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Re: Mahle Piston and Cylinder Set Q

#8 Post by Vic Skirmants » Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:41 am

Thickness of the cylinder wall definitely says they are for a 3-piece case engine, using the 3-piece engine cylindeer heads.

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Re: Mahle Piston and Cylinder Set Q

#9 Post by James Davies » Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:59 am

In fact, compare these to a set of 1300 Super (3-piece case) P&Cs in the classifieds.

https://porsche356registry.org/classifieds/1169

They look the same except for the higher-compression pistons of the Super.

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Re: Mahle Piston and Cylinder Set Q

#10 Post by Carl Bauer » Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:13 pm

Thanks for all your help guys! Here are a few more pics of one of the 74.5mm cylinders. Looks like the Porsche part Nr. for the P&C set is 616.03.221
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Re: Mahle Piston and Cylinder Set Q

#11 Post by James Davies » Sat Jan 17, 2015 2:25 pm

Carl, are these cylinders chrome-lined or nicasil-lined? Chrome lined (with the bumps) would mean they were from the mid-50s. Nicasil lined would mean they were made later, perhaps in the 60s, as replacement items for 506/2 engines.

And I should correct myself above. I mentioned the "nosed" pistons were used on the 2-piece cases. This is only partially true. There were two 1300 2-piece case engines with different bore and stroke.

Type 506, 80mm bore, 64mm stroke
Type 506/1, 74.5mm bore, 74mm stroke (also called the 1300A)
Type 589, 74.5mm bore, 74mm stroke, (also called 1500 Super)

Only the late 506 engines from ~1953 used the nosed pistons.

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Re: Mahle Piston and Cylinder Set Q

#12 Post by Carl Bauer » Sat Jan 17, 2015 7:37 pm

James Davies wrote:Carl, are these cylinders chrome-lined or nicasil-lined? Chrome lined (with the bumps) would mean they were from the mid-50s. Nicasil lined would mean they were made later, perhaps in the 60s, as replacement items for 506/2 engines.
James,

Per your description they're chrome lined. The liners have the little 'bumps'.
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Re: Mahle Piston and Cylinder Set Q

#13 Post by James Davies » Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:27 pm

Cool Carl! Those are period originals then. Very nice.

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Re: Mahle Piston and Cylinder Set Q

#14 Post by Dick Weiss » Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:34 am

A clarification,

The chrome liners wouldn't have 'bumps' in their bores; they're dimples to retain lubricant for the pistons/rings.
The Nicasil coating was/is a replacement for the previous metal-sprayed S90/early SC aluminum cyls. which has
enough oil retainment like cast iron cyls.

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Re: Mahle Piston and Cylinder Set Q

#15 Post by Tom Kaiser » Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:32 am

Carl,

do you still offer toolkit repros like Prudenz, Messco

pls contact me

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