Turn Signal Electronic Flasher and Brake Lights

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Stan Yarrish
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Turn Signal Electronic Flasher and Brake Lights

#1 Post by Stan Yarrish »

Hi Guys,

Thanks in advance for your insight into this new problem. I installed 6V LED's in my parking lights, and rear brake and turn signal lights on a 65C Coupe. I bought an electronic flasher from a well known 356 supplier.

Two issues have come up.

1- This flasher is a four pronged plug, and you bend over one prong 90 degrees (or as much as you can) to connect a ground wire to this terminal. However the bent over prong, and the supplied ground wire that slips on the tab still takes up about 1/8" when bent over, maybe more, and so you can't get a good 3 prong solid connection into the existing receptacle for the flasher unit.
I even went so far as to solder a wire to the prong to get the ground connector out from under the body of the flasher, to get a better connection with the flasher pushed in as far as it can go. But it is still a weak connection at best and would probably work it's way out after a few good bumps in the road. The brightness of the LED's, even in daylight, is great..I'm sure some of you have installed this flasher unit and I'd be interested in how you solved this problem. Seems like the prongs need to be made longer???

2- After installing the LED's, I do not have brake lights. I am reasonably sure I had them before the LED's were installed. I guess I could put the original bulbs back in to see way happens. Anyone else come across this problem. I searched the Main Talk list and there are a few posts related to this issue. One post suggests that the + and - wires are crossed but I am not sure where they are talking about.

Thanks again, Stan
Stan J Yarrish

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Sebastian Gaeta
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Re: Turn Signal Electronic Flasher and Brake Lights

#2 Post by Sebastian Gaeta »

Stan,

Sierra Madre sells a true three prong flasher in 6v and 12v, same price:
http://www.sierramadrecollection.com/st ... il&p=10118


Edit: I am assuming that you bout the LED tail lights for Jim Franzen at CU Layer, inc.

I had a similar issue with the LED tail lights and Jim guided me through a simple fix: Included with the units are small "extenders" for the legs that make contact with the socket. Add one at a time until you get them to work.

If that is not it, call Jim and he will help you. He has hands down the best customer service of anyone I have ever dealt with, and not just Porsche related.

I hope this helps,
Sebastian Gaeta
www.arbormotion.com

Registry #8339

'65 C coupe
'64 C cab

-------
2014 Boxster 981
2005 997 C2 Cab
1967 Karmann Ghia Convertible
1966 VW Single Cab
1966 Ducati Cafe Racer
1964 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1963 Beetle

Rosemary Sampson

Re: Turn Signal Electronic Flasher and Brake Lights

#3 Post by Rosemary Sampson »

Stan:

It is very likely that if you call that "well known 356 supplier" and ask that he will provide you extensive telephonic advice and help and/or refund your $ if it simply doesn't work for you. Bill and I have had nothing but good experiences with the better known suppliers here.

We have LEDs all around on a 6 volt 64 Coupe, use the CU Layer taillight/rear signal setup from Jim Franzen and the Zim's Flasher. Everything works great.

JohnThomsonJr
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Re: Turn Signal Electronic Flasher and Brake Lights

#4 Post by JohnThomsonJr »

I just did the same upgrade on my 61T5B this winter. Sebastian is correct, the Sierra Madre flasher relay plugs right in and doesn't need the extra ground wire-- it fit fairly loose in the socket base so I had to add zip tie retention but otherwise worked great.
For brake lights, this is probably unique to my car, but I also had no brake lights after installing the LED's but turn signals and taillamps worked fine... on my car (a late 80's mild outlaw build) they had added a 3rd brake light mounted low, and my dad had added the LED 3rd brake light mounted high, both driven directly off the brake pedal switch. I don't think that switch is intended to carry current (I think it's just a signal input into the turn signal switch), so there was a huge voltage drop across it-- once I disconnected the lower 3rd brake light, all the lights worked great without issue. Also explains why the old incandescents were so dim... they were running at about 3V!

Anyway, good luck with the resolution-- the LED's are fantastic once you get them working...

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Greg Scallon
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Re: Turn Signal Electronic Flasher and Brake Lights

#5 Post by Greg Scallon »

Hello Stan,
I did an install of the flasher from Zim's awhile back. Here's a link to the short write up I did on the process. I can't remember but I believe I folded over that extra tab as well. I do know that the three main prongs held the flasher into the socket quite well and it hasn't come close to jiggling out in the three or so years I've had it in there. Here's the link.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10100

Good luck with your project. I'm sure you'll get it sorted out, along with the LED tail lights, soon. (I have LED from Jim Franzen too, and love them.)

-Greg
'58 Speedster
'56 VW Deluxe Microbus 

Brad Ripley
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Re: Turn Signal Electronic Flasher and Brake Lights

#6 Post by Brad Ripley »

I haven't heard of the problem Stan is having with the flasher. Is the plug original to the car? Those plugs are the same as a headlight plug and there are many versions (good and bad) of those plugs. It should look like the plug in Greg's photos in his link to previous discussion.

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Stan Yarrish
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Re: Turn Signal Electronic Flasher and Brake Lights

#7 Post by Stan Yarrish »

Thanks everyone for the replies and prior post references. I see from the post just above Brad's that the problem may be that my flasher socket is not round like shown in one of the pictures. It is actually square? I will try to get back under the dash and take a picture or try to measure the outside dimensions. And just for the record, the flasher unit was bought from Stoddard's. I have talked to Paul yesterday about this problem, and the LED's were bought from Jeffrey Fellmann at Classico Wheels. So at least the fit up issue may be because the socket is a different style. In the past I also wondered why the original flasher would not seat very well, always seemed loose. Maybe the prior owner changed this out for some reason. I know this car had a very early version of the headlight relay wiring, which I removed and replaced with the Joe Leoni setup. I'll have to check the catalogs, can I buy the flasher socket and how hard is it to install?

Thanks again,

Stan
Stan J Yarrish

Chris Anderson
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Re: Turn Signal Electronic Flasher and Brake Lights

#8 Post by Chris Anderson »

Stan,
I had the same problem when I installed mine a few months ago, upon closer inspection I found the other supplier offers wiring connectors with the relay that effectively extend the posts on the relay (male/male). I tried to locate these locally with no luck so ended up using short sections of wire with the appropriate connectors and remotely mounting the relay next to the base. Mounting was handy for ground wire. My socket is original, 63b cab.
Chris Anderson
1963 Cabriolet

Brad Ripley
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Re: Turn Signal Electronic Flasher and Brake Lights

#9 Post by Brad Ripley »

Original socket looks like below. Depth to the contacts is 5,90 (.21") including the ridge around the edge.
Attachments
001.JPG

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Stan Yarrish
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Re: Turn Signal Electronic Flasher and Brake Lights

#10 Post by Stan Yarrish »

Hi Brad,

I've attached two photos. One shows how I modified the electronic flasher with a short wire connector. The purpose being to minimize the space required when the tab was bent over. The second is a photo of the female socket in my firewall. Again this is a 65 C Coupe, chassis # 221797. So with this set up, the flasher won't engage the three prongs very well in the female connector.

I put everything back to the way it was with the standard bulbs and flasher. Now I don't have brake lights or turn signals. Now I was troubleshooting my electronic tach, so it was pulled out of the dash just enough to move some wires around. No luck, could not get it to work, so I put the wires back to the way they were. I don't know what I could have done to affect the brake lights and turn signals, so I will have to do more wiring checks.

Thanks,

Stan
Attachments
IMG_0669.JPG
IMG_0666.JPG
Stan J Yarrish

Brad Ripley
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Re: Turn Signal Electronic Flasher and Brake Lights

#11 Post by Brad Ripley »

There's always more ---- we checked further. There can be problem with the length of the prongs of the currently-manufactured Hella made in India flashers. Together with Stan, we're trying to find a reasonable solution without soldering and the heat involved to connect the ground wire. Stay tuned.

In the meantime, my previously posted photo of a flasher plug shows the plug used only on 356A cars; sorry if that caused some confusion. Below are illustrations from the parts catalogs showing the three types of flashers/plugs.
Attachments
Flasher Instal comp's.jpg

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Stan Yarrish
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Re: Turn Signal Electronic Flasher

#12 Post by Stan Yarrish »

Hi Everyone. I thought I would close the loop on this issue with the electronic flasher installation, Paul from Stoddard's sent me some Double Spades, part # 999-652-122-10. These are sent to you bent in a U shape, one end connector is longer than the other. I straightened out the double end connectors on my bench vise, and then used a Dremel tool to cut off one end just above the crimped female end. ( see photos below). I cut off the short ends. You can then push fit the connector extensions on to the flasher prongs. This allows the ground wire prong to be bent over. You can then insert the flasher in the plug and it makes a good connection. See two photos below. Thanks to Paul and everyone else who responded. I understand that this issue may only be present on 356 C's, or possibly other early Porsches with that type of receptacle. I had a friend work on my wiring harness so now the turn signals are working properly with the new LED bulbs! With this solution you wouldn't need to solder a connector to ground wire like I did. Since I performed this change before I received the prong extensions, I didn't bother to remove this connector. Stan
Attachments
Connect the ground wire to the stud near the flasher and you are good to go!
Connect the ground wire to the stud near the flasher and you are good to go!
Install connectors on flasher prongs
Install connectors on flasher prongs
Cut off the short end with your Dremel tool
Cut off the short end with your Dremel tool
Then you straighten the connectors in a vice.
Then you straighten the connectors in a vice.
Connectors as supplied by Stoddard's
Connectors as supplied by Stoddard's
Stan J Yarrish

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Jim Nelson
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Re: Turn Signal Electronic Flasher and Brake Lights

#13 Post by Jim Nelson »

I had the same issue; I had bought an electronic flasher from a local FLAPS, and it was a 4-pronger. The initial solution was fitting a ground wire much like you did, but it would periodically fall out, which was not a feature. The Sierra Madre flasher, which is 3-prong like the original, has cured that issue.

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Al Zim
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Re: Turn Signal Electronic Flasher and Brake Lights

#14 Post by Al Zim »

Zim's was the first to introduce the electronic 6 volt turn signal flasher, They were manufactured in Germany by Hella and used on the Trebaunt a 2 cycle East German car. Over time manufacturers copied this flasher and now it is available in 6 and 12 volts. I would suggest to you that during the manufacture of the 356 the under dash wiring was not installed properly. This would lead to a malfunctioning electronic turn signal flasher. Usually symptoms will show up in the tachometer (both electrical and mechanical). If your vehicle has undergone restoration and you change from a mechanical to electronic flasher this situation will be present. Please call me: al zim 800.356.2964 2018/10/01
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