Barrett Jackson 60 Sunroof Coupe $110,000!

[Jim Neil]

A 1960 Sunroof Coupe Super sold for $110,000 (including buyer premium) at Barrett Jackson today.

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/applicat ... 75&aid=543

My buddy who told me and was watching the auction on TV said the consensus there was it was a fair price and buyer didn't overpay. I told him I thought somebody substantially overpaid.

Just sharing.

[Tom Tate]

Nice that it has a sunroof but the dash pad ends too soon and the right side fuel line has some strange bends in it. Who ever redid the seats needs more practice. No rubber boots on the generator leads, oil filter top should be black, but nice sport exhaust. Even the prices on T5 cars are rising...

[Brad Ripley]

I saw the TV show live with the walk around feature before the actual auction. In the walkaround I notice poor hood fit on the right side, poor repro hubcaps and 5 1/2" wheels. They made quite a point of our the sunroof handle being very rare (it isn't, there's been at least two repros).

From the published description, it doesn't say the sunroof is original to the car, although engine, etc is "matching". From the few photos I see --
USA reflectors but Euro tail lights
Sport muffler not original to the car
Rear guards with not exhaust (to go with the muffler)
Blue coil
Fan housing looks grey not silver
Fram filter probably should be H-filter and funny decal/no side decals.
Euro front blinker lenses
Aero mirror head turned wrong.

My opinion is the car was slightly high (hammer was $100 K) but close considering the sunroof if it's original to the car. IMHO, sunroofs can add $15,000 to $20,000 . All that's from seeing the TV and the website photos.

[Tom Tate]

Brad, I appreciate you insights. Last Fall when I had a '63 sunroof T6 in Slate Gray for sale, numbers matching, I had a member check with one of the 'experts' as to the value added by the electric sunroof. The well known expert, that has written a few books about our cars, said that a sunroof would not add more than $5k, assuming that it was original to the car. Less if was a clip and didn't show on the Kardex. I was stunned when told that the car was over priced at $75k. It did sell at that figure and the member in question is still looking for that sunroof coupe at $50k. I have the feeling that the expert didn't do him any favors and he'll be looking for a while...

[Roy Lock]

Tom absolutely right. When these cars were new in the showrooms, sunroof cars cost just as much as a cabriolet. A vast majority of 356's were sold here in California. Given the choice of an open car or a sunroof, I would have to think most buyers would have opted for the open car. This the relative rarity of sunroof cars. Maybe not so true for Europe or the Northeast. To this day, it is easier to find an open car than a sunroof car.
I live in both worlds. The sunroof car is best for long or spirited drives. The Roadster is fun around town and to show off. My better half says she hates the Roadster because it messes up her hair when we go for drives.

[Dennis ODonnell]

"...the expert didn't do him any favors..."

Expert or not, if he doesn't have current market values in hand when he looks at a car he's not much of an appraiser.

[Brad Ripley]

Gee, I missed the fact there was no Reutter badge on the blue car.

[Ed Martinez]

I attended the auction and saw the car. It was in very good shape, the engine numbers checked out (as per H Pellow's engine truth table) and the paint job was decent. I would have liked a little more detailing in the trunk area but, in general a very good T5! Engine sounded great. Too bad it went over my budget. Anyway now I'm more motivated to finish my '60 Fjord Green T5.

[Adam Wright]

A good rule of thumb is the better the car the more it's rareness or exotic-ness will increase it's value. In the case of the sunroof, a very nice sunroof car will far exceed a regular coupe. It's kind of like having better gas in a bigger motor, the curve gets higher and higher. While a mediocre sunroof car will not jump away from a regular coupe. I have sold some sunroof cars that were just ok and the sunroof helped them sell faster but didn't bring a crazy amount more money.
It sounds like this was a very nice car that was a sunroof to boot, but if the car was that nice, it probably would have commanded good money with or without a sunroof.
Also, Tom is right, experts are not always as smart as they think they are, I have had plenty of occasions when an "expert" scoffed at a car or a deal, only to watch the real expert, i.e. the market, prove him wrong. You can't out-think the market.

[Jacques Lefriant]

Question does the exclusivity of the vehicle transcend the corectness of the restoration as far as value. eg would this car sell incrementally more than the cost to address the issuses that Brad and others pointed out?

[Roy Lock]

First off, I gotta say I am a real tight wad on a fixed income. Second, I am about 5-10 years behind on values.

Jacque and Adam make very good points of selling price vs value. However we do know what these things are worth today. To get a decent 356 to restore is anywhere from $35-80 (I'm using a coupe as a baseline) depending on factors and equipment. Then to decent driver will add another $50-80 on top of that. That brings it in Brad's shouting range. That does not mean the car is full concours, just a very nice driver with rust and collision damage taken care of. Engine and tranny rebuilds are a total of $5-10, yep, do the math parts will cost you at least that.

We also have to remember that an experts assessment is an opinion based on some facts. Yet, we have seen how the market is crazy. Example, I have a friend who bought a Toyota 2000GT for about $600. I thought he had rocks in his head. Yet a year later two have sold for over $1.1. So there, who is the crazy one? Then there are the Mercedes Gullwings, or 550's and 904's. Check out what they were going for in the early 80's compared to now.

[Trevor Gates]

Second, I am about 5-10 years behind on values.

Roy Lock
Registry #1704
356 Club of SoCal #0018
62 S90 Roadster "Ole Blu"
63 S90 Sunroof Coupe "Fritz"
70 Dodge Challenger T/A "Pinky"

Roy - Do you know where I can find a 62 S90 Roadster or a 63 S90 S/R Coupe for sale? Let's see how long it takes you to catch up to today's prices.

[Roy Lock]

Trevor, as a matter-of-fact I do know where I can find one each of those cars for sale. But as with all enthusiasts, we also know that sometimes the best examples are not sold on the open market. For those veterans who have been in the 356 world for over 35 years, we know many are traded privately.

To put some of you at ease, I am not the person whom Tom Tate was referring to. Except in private, and not for money, I do offer opinions on values to friends.

[Adam Wright]

Trevor, I am hatching a plan to get Roy commited and then strike a deal with Frank for the Roadster. I will make sure to use some of the money to make Roy's stay at the nut house a pleasant one. A velvet lined straight jacket Roy?

[Rusty Ferrell]

I recently purchased a 61 sunroof coupe from one of our Porsche friends, I figured, as the expert that I am, I paid a 25K premium for the sunroof and 5K for the rest of the car. That said, I am enjoying both, now to just get it titled and registered, that is the challenge.
It is nice to see the cars appreciating until we want to buy one.
I just bought a set of sport seats for my 71E that cost me 2.5 times what I paid for my first Speedster in '71.
I always fall back on what one 356er said years ago, " I never paid too much for a Porsche, just sold it too soon".
Wish you all good health,