Aftermarket Sunroof
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 217
- Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 6:55 pm
- Location: San Diego
Aftermarket Sunroof
Looking at a 62 S90 with an electric sunroof not listed on the COA. How do I distinguish factory vs. aftermarket hoping that it just got missed on the COA? Are there any aftermarket brands to be avoided and how are they labeled so I can find the manufacturer ( or were they usually factory equipment)? Finally, could an aftermarket sunroof ever detract from the car's value? Thanks as always fellas, Mark.
- Albert Tiedemann
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 1229
- Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:46 pm
Re: Aftermarket Sunroof
When you open the engine cover, there should be some drain holes in the upper left and right corners in the engine cover recess that would allow effluent from the sun roof aperture to drain. My '59 had a manual sun roof and it was manufactured by Golde. There was also stout hoses directing the run-off in the engine bay. Are these present in your car? If so, likely original sun-roof.
This is my recollection and I could be all wet, npi.
This is my recollection and I could be all wet, npi.
Last edited by Albert Tiedemann on Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Albert Tiedemann, C356C
"The Hermit"
"The Hermit"
- Adam Wright
- Classifieds Monitor
- Posts: 10304
- Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:00 am
- Tag: KTF
Re: Aftermarket Sunroof
One of the biggest giveaways for a car that has been "clipped" with a sunroof worked onto a coupe that left the factory without a sunroof is the lack of drain holes, they are right behind the corner windows and look like this. I have de-bunked many a "Factory Sunroof" by pointing out to the owner the lack of drain holes.
If you want to post pictures of the car you are looking at I bet we can determine if it's real or not.
If you want to post pictures of the car you are looking at I bet we can determine if it's real or not.
www.unobtanium-inc.com
Check out my Barn Find column in the Registry magazine, always looking for good stories.
Check out my Barn Find column in the Registry magazine, always looking for good stories.
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 217
- Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 6:55 pm
- Location: San Diego
Re: Aftermarket Sunroof
Thanks guys. No drain holes...so how did the after markets drain? Mark
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 1064
- Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:40 pm
Re: Aftermarket Sunroof
What year did they stop draining through the engine compartment and start draining behind the vent Windows?
- Martin Benade
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 12188
- Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:52 am
- Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Re: Aftermarket Sunroof
Most any sliding steel sunroof on a 356 is probably either factory, or a factory roof with sunroof grafted on from another car. Just about any sunroof really doesn't seal much and requires drains to get rid of what gets past the "seal". If it doesn't have drains, it leaks. I think I have heard of sunroofs added in Germany in the early fifties that were quite similar to factory ones.
Cleveland Ohio
62 Cabriolet
56 VW
02 IS 300
04 Sienna
62 Cabriolet
56 VW
02 IS 300
04 Sienna
- Tom Tate
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 1108
- Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:27 pm
- Tag: Boston MA
- Location: Boston MA
Re: Aftermarket Sunroof
The drain holes behind the side windows appeared on the T6 bodies. Prior to that the rubber hose at the rear was about 4 feet long and went through the rear bulkhead, into the engine compartment and then through a hole in the inner engine compartment panel (at the top near the opening) then down another foot or so to allow drainage onto the ground. There was a service bulletin in the mid '50's (Roy Lock where are you?) that told dealers to add additional length to the drain hose because in the T1 cars the drain hose was too short and it was dripping onto the panels causing corrosion.
At the Sunday Swap Meet (3/2/14) there was a '64 C coupe on display with a Factory sunroof that looked great until we noticed that there were no rear drain holes. I stood by for a while to see who caught it and only a few noticed. It had been clipped.
There was a T5 coupe at the Russo & Steele Scottsdale auction last year that had a hand crank VW metal sunroof installed. It looked pretty well done except for the crank handle that didn't have anywhere to go and was rather close to the drivers and passengers heads. The seller was sure it was a Factory option.
At the Sunday Swap Meet (3/2/14) there was a '64 C coupe on display with a Factory sunroof that looked great until we noticed that there were no rear drain holes. I stood by for a while to see who caught it and only a few noticed. It had been clipped.
There was a T5 coupe at the Russo & Steele Scottsdale auction last year that had a hand crank VW metal sunroof installed. It looked pretty well done except for the crank handle that didn't have anywhere to go and was rather close to the drivers and passengers heads. The seller was sure it was a Factory option.
Last edited by Tom Tate on Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 951
- Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:52 am
Re: Aftermarket Sunroof
Mark
Get a kardex for your car, it could be a sunroof was added just after the body was completed by the factory. Sometimes when a customer came to pick up their car they wanted a sunroof installed. The factory would then send the car to golde to have one installed. The drains would be different , they would come out just aft. Of the B pillars underneath the car. Look for a rubber drain house straight up and a little forward of the rear wheels.
I assume this happened more than once, the kardex may show the addition of the sunroof.
Get a kardex for your car, it could be a sunroof was added just after the body was completed by the factory. Sometimes when a customer came to pick up their car they wanted a sunroof installed. The factory would then send the car to golde to have one installed. The drains would be different , they would come out just aft. Of the B pillars underneath the car. Look for a rubber drain house straight up and a little forward of the rear wheels.
I assume this happened more than once, the kardex may show the addition of the sunroof.
Last edited by Max Handley on Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Contact email Spyderwerks@comcast.net
- Trevor Gates
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 1089
- Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:52 pm
- Location: San Clemente, CA
Re: Aftermarket Sunroof
You assume right Max! I know a one owner car where this happened, factory sunroof and no visible drain holes on the outside. He got it re-painted last year after a minor fender bender. What should he do? Add drain holes so everyone stops asking him where the holes are if it left the factory with it and has not been clipped? He did...
https://www.instagram.com/trevorcgates/
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 137
- Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:48 pm
- Location: Northern California
- Contact:
Re: Aftermarket Sunroof
I have two C sunroof cars. One is electric and is listed on the coa; it has the drain holes behind the rear quarter windows. It is a GOLDE. The second one was installed through the dealer in Marin at the time of purchase as the owners wanted a sunroof. It is also a GOLDE. It has a crank handle, but everything else in the mechanism, tracks, etc. is just like the electric one. The drain tubes go through the A and B pillars. There are no drain holes behind the quarter windows. A friend who is a 356 concours judge told me that when it is installed at the time of purchase by the dealer it concours correct. (He likes the mechanical ones better because he believes them to be more trouble free.)
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 217
- Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 6:55 pm
- Location: San Diego
Re: Aftermarket Sunroof
Thanks John. Could you imagine cutting off the top of a brand new Porsche back then to add a sunroof? I wonder why the clip did not just go all the way back to behind the quarter window so it would drain and look like factory? Where is the electric switch located on the dash of your C? Mark
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 137
- Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:48 pm
- Location: Northern California
- Contact:
Re: Aftermarket Sunroof
There was a GOLDE manufacturer in South San Francisco in 1964 and Jim Braezeale told me of a sunroof company in Emeryville that also installed GOLDE roofs. Maybe the Porsche dealer sent it out and had it done before delivery. I think that the factory cut a hole in the roof, and didn't lop it off at the pillars. I am pretty sure that is what Ron Roland wrote. My sunroof switch is on the bottom of the instrument panel (facing the floor) and to the left of the steering wheel.
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 1477
- Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:35 pm
- Location: North Orange County, California
Re: Aftermarket Sunroof
Asleep at the wheel. Actually counting my hoard of goodies I got at the Phoenix Club swap meetTom Tate wrote: (Roy Lock where are you?)
As with all service bulletins, none are written unless there has been numerous problems. I am sure along with the exhaust fumes talked about in the following bulletin, there were also rust issues. This bulletin is written for T5B cars, but it certainly applied to those A cars with manual sunroofs.
My observations are similar to the ones Tom and Adam described. The T6 cars with factory installed sunroofs had external drains. If you look in the T6B Spare Parts Manual, you will see that the roof panel has a different part number for sunroof cars thus leading one to assume that the skin and internal structure are different from a regular coupe. Golde had a United States distributor, American Sunroofs in Los Angeles.
Roy Lock
Registry #1704
356 Club of SoCal #0018
62 S90 Roadster "Ole Blu"
63 S90 Sunroof Coupe "Fritz"
70 Dodge Challenger T/A "Pinky"
Registry #1704
356 Club of SoCal #0018
62 S90 Roadster "Ole Blu"
63 S90 Sunroof Coupe "Fritz"
70 Dodge Challenger T/A "Pinky"
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 1477
- Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:35 pm
- Location: North Orange County, California
Re: Aftermarket Sunroof
John, to answer your question. Golde had a complete manual on how and where to cut the hole in the roof. It gave a complete set of dimensions. That was not for the faint of heart to do. I would not have trusted anyone to do that. As I said, if you go to the T6B parts manual under the section on Electric Sunroof, you will see not only the mechanical parts but also the exact part number of the roof panel.
In the mid 70's grafting a sunroof panel onto a coupe was somewhat common. What failed to happen was the right cut through the C pillar. Thus many grafted sunroofs missed this critical detail forcing the bodyshop installer to drain the sunroof through the engine compartment.
The location of your switch is where the factory put theirs. It is also where the wires were. If your sunroof was installed after it left the factory, as an after market option, then logically the switch is where it should be and that it would have no external drains on the C pillar.
In the mid 70's grafting a sunroof panel onto a coupe was somewhat common. What failed to happen was the right cut through the C pillar. Thus many grafted sunroofs missed this critical detail forcing the bodyshop installer to drain the sunroof through the engine compartment.
The location of your switch is where the factory put theirs. It is also where the wires were. If your sunroof was installed after it left the factory, as an after market option, then logically the switch is where it should be and that it would have no external drains on the C pillar.
Roy Lock
Registry #1704
356 Club of SoCal #0018
62 S90 Roadster "Ole Blu"
63 S90 Sunroof Coupe "Fritz"
70 Dodge Challenger T/A "Pinky"
Registry #1704
356 Club of SoCal #0018
62 S90 Roadster "Ole Blu"
63 S90 Sunroof Coupe "Fritz"
70 Dodge Challenger T/A "Pinky"
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 137
- Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:48 pm
- Location: Northern California
- Contact:
Re: Aftermarket Sunroof
Thanks, Roy, but you missed my earlier post. I have two C sunroof cars. One is electric with the drain holes behind the quarter windows, and one is manual, that doesn't have the drain holes behind the quarter window and was requested by the buyer at the time of purchase and was taken care of by the dealer. Both look to have the same components, sans the electric motor in the one. While I have you here, thanks for arranging the scat and toyota tours!