How many Karmann Notchbacks/Couperiolets still survive?

[steverestelli]

Dusty,.
The bottom picture you describe as a 1961 being restored looks like a 1962 T-6 from the back. Did someone donate a twin grill? Also the windshield looks taller as a T-6 would

[Roy Smalley]

Dusty....on the car. I am Roy.

The body was converted in 1990. I had a T-6 cab lid so on it went. No, it is a 61, not a T-6. Sorry for the confusion.

[Mark Pribanic]

Here's one #200868 in Jacksonville, Florida.

Vincent, Is Johns Notchback at his house now? I rent a 1000sf shop one row behind Johns whs space now and haven't seen him or his 356 over there in a long while. I think Mark P. ( not me) also has one that had the roof cut off and I believe he is wanting to weld it back on.

[Judith Hanna]

RE: The 1962 Notchback at WCH. I am the owner and so very proud to have my car take 1st in B closed. It is and always has been a California car. Took us 6 yrs. to restore. Original color was Oslo Blue with red vinyl interior. It remains that way today.

[steverestelli]

Judith,
Could you please post a picture of your 1962 notchback. It sounds very nice.
Thanks,
Steve

[Bruce Edge]

I have a friend that is restoring a factory sunroof Notchback. That must be a very rare car. Does anyone know of another one?

Bruce Edge

[steverestelli]

Ibrahim. in Texas, has a factory sunroof with a manual crank mechanism. Is this the one you are talking about?

[Bob Campbell]

Is T-5 Notch # 200914 out there anywhere? It used to live at my house.

Bob

[Adam Wright]

Bruce, there was a very rusty Sunroof notch at Gary Kempton's place, some of you might recognize the buyer in this pic I took while we loaded it.

[Ibrahim Kuzu]

Hey Bob,
#914 Notch got mad at you, been alone in the garage and taking out the Speedster always, and She divorced you
IK

[Ibrahim Kuzu]

Bruce,Steve,
Mine is;
Vin # 200006 Werkseigen ( In House, Factory owned)

Factory crank back sunroof S90

Factory Engineer KD Hans Klauser's Test Mule Notch with many T6 items....He has driven her 82K km in two years....

He is at far right in this picture.....


Thare are few T5 Sunroof Notch cars out there but I think 006 is the only crank back one in the production ....

IK

[Adam Wright]

Don't forget the "I wish I had a Gullwing" notchback.

More pics here:

http://unobtaniuminc.wordpress.com/2009 ... -or-a-356/

[jason West]

I have #200078 with top on in Southern CA - Needs to be restored

[Mark Roth]

Here's the text of an article I wrote for the Registry a few years ago. Volume 30, Number 5. It's in the Magazine Archives. Go to Magazine at the top of the screen and then Magazine Archives.

THE NOTCHBACK

WHAT’S IN A NAME?

The official name of the Notchback is the “Hardtop.” The Hardtop got nicknamed the “Notchback” in order to simplify identification of the model. Porsche had used the “Hardtop” label for years to describe the removable hardtop for the Cabriolet model. The Hardtop was sometimes called the “Hardtop Coupe,” to distinguish it from the hardtop Cabriolet. Although technically correct (after all, the Hardtop is a coupe), this name confuses the Hardtop with the standard Coupe. In order to use the Hardtop name and avoid the confusion with the hardtop Cabriolet and the standard Coupe, the Hardtop is often called the “Karmann Hardtop,” as the body was built by Karmann. The formal name “Hardtop” will be used in this article.

UGLY DUCKLING OR SWAN?

Some people consider the Hardtop to be the “ugly ducking” of the 356 line. Perhaps they just haven’t noticed the styling lines of this beauty. From the side (Figure 1), the Hardtop is more graceful and lighter looking than the bulky look of the Coupe. Below the glass line, the body lines are the sleek lines of the cabriolet. The rear of the car (Figure 2) displays the sensuous curves of the cabriolet. The bulk of the folding top has been removed. Instead, a light, thin-pillared canopy has been fixed on the body. The pop-out side windows (Figure 3) are curved to accent the graceful styling of the canopy. Doug Brown sent me this photo which illustrates the difference between his Hardtop and the nearby Coupes (Figure 4). The beauty of the Hardtop must have impressed the Goebel crystal works as they made a crystal model of the Hardtop (Figure 5). The Hardtop surely is a swan!

THE KARMANN CONNECTION

The Hardtop model was the first Porsche model produced by Karmann. Reutter continued to build the Coupe, Cabriolet and the removable hardtop model of the Cabriolet. After the Hardtop was discontinued, Karmann began building the Coupe for Porsche. At the time, Karmann was also producing the VW Convertible and Karmann Ghia models for Volkswagen (Figure 6 - photo courtesy of Alan Bambina, who owned and restored the Polyantha Red T-6 Hardtop, license plate RHUBRB, which made the concours circuit in the 1990s).

THE T-5 AND THE T-6 VERSIONS

1048 of the T-5 models were produced in 1961 as 1961 models. The roof panel was simply welded to the standard Cabriolet body and leaded across the rear deck under the rear window. The T-5 model had a ridge above the windshield where the roof panel was welded onto the Cabriolet window frame. It is a common misconception that the roof panel on the Hardtop is the same as that of the removable hardtop. The side and rear windows were unique to the Hardtop model and were not the same as those on the removable hardtop (Figure 7 - Page 142 bottom of Conradt book). Like the Cabriolet, there was no frame around the doors. The interior finish around the doors and windows was unique to the model (Figure 8) as was the carpeting.

600 of the T-6 models were produced in 1961 as 1962 models and a final 99 units were produced in 1962 as 1962 models. Aside from the obvious differences between the T-5 and T-6 Cabriolet body styles, the T-6 Hardtop was different from the T-5 Hardtop in two respects: First, the windshield of the T-6 was one inch taller, as the windshield of the T-6 Coupe was used. Second, the roof panel was fitted as an integral part of the body design. The junction of the windshield and roof line was similar to that of the Coupe. The ridge above the windshield was gone. The back of the roof panel was continued to the rear deck and there was no longer a leaded weld line across the rear deck.

A SHORT RUN

The Hardtop model was not a sales success. It was discontinued in 1962, along with another slow selling model, the Roadster. These cars just were not selling. I discussed the Hardtop story with legendary Bill Jones, who lives in San Antonio. Bill was the featured guest at the Gulf Coast Holiday in 2005 and was the Southwest distributor for Porsche from 1959 to 1967. Bill thought that Porsche made the Hardtop model for two reasons: First, many buyers, especially in Europe, bought the Cabriolet with just the removable hardtop and not the soft top. Porsche figured that there was a market for a fixed hardtop model. Second, the slightly higher roof line of the Hardtop model offered slightly more headroom for the back seats. Bill told me that dealers just couldn’t sell the Hardtop and Roadster models. Buyers just didn’t find them appealing compared to the Coupe and Cabriolet. Bill also stated that the build quality of the Hardtop and Roadster just wasn’t up to the quality of the Reutter standards. Panel gaps weren’t as good and the Roadster tops were a constant cause of problems. Because of the slow sales, stocking parts just wasn’t cost effective. Bill confirmed a story he had related to Alan Bambina: Dealers had asked for a dozen Cabriolets. The factory sent two Cabriolets and 10 Hardtops and told the dealers that they would get the rest of the Cabriolets when they sold the Hardtops. Dealers had to sell the Hardtops at a discount although the listing price was about the same as the Coupe.

THE HARDTOP IN PRINT

In addition to the roof line comparison in Figure 7, Porsche publicity photos from the era included a street shot of the T-5 Hardtop (Figure 10 - Page 143 top of Conradt book) and a side view of the T-6 Hardtop (Figure 9 - Page 142 top of Conradt book).

The first Porsche sales brochure to show the Hardtop was published in April 1961 and is shown on M&M Page 203 (Figure 11- courtesy of Tim Havermans at http://www.liebe-zu-ihm.be). M&M number stands for the page number in the book titled: "PORSCHE: Brochures and Sales Literature, a Source Book 1948-1965" by Richard F. Merritt and Susann C. Miller, Revised Edition. Tim also sent me a page from another brochure which is shown in Figure 12. Tim writes, “The other picture is of a brochure which looks almost the same on the front cover, except that there's no mentioning of a date nor a type designation like Coupe, Hardtop, Roadster or Cabriolet. It dates from December 1960.” The interesting things about this brochure are that the removable hardtop Cabriolet model is shown and the accompanying copy is an abbreviated version of the copy in the brochure published later. This brochure is not included in the M&M book.

In 1961, a “quick-facts” sheet was published in the U.S.A. and is shown in Figure 13. Notice that the artist didn’t draw the correct shape of the canopy of the Hardtop. This sheet is shown and described on M&M page 212.

A T-6 brochure was published in October of 1961 and the Hardtop is shown and described on M&M pages 220 and 221 (Figure 14).

THE CONVERSIONS

Because the T-5 Hardtop was basically a Cabriolet with the hard top welded on, it was a relatively easy matter to convert the Hardtop to a Cabriolet. The Cabriolet hardware fittings were even included in the body when it left the Karmann factory. T-6 Hardtops were slightly more difficult to convert but the theory was the same. Ric Marcus, the self-described “Notchback King,” told me that he knew of at least 20 Hardtops that were converted into Cabriolets. Ric told me that Hardtop conversions were big in Europe although they have tapered off due to the lack of Cabriolet top mechanisms. Ric has salvaged many a Hardtop and is a source for hard to find Hardtop parts. Roy Smalley at eurowerks.com is another person who has done Hardtop conversions. Roy currently has one conversion in progress. Alan Bambina personally converted a T-6 into a topless outlaw roadster. Dean Watts is the owner of a T-6 converted into an outlaw . Dean wrote, “As you are probably aware, all of the Karmann Hardtops were installed on a Cabriolet chassis. This is the first car that Jim Rinker converted from a Karmann Hardtop, back to a Cabriolet. This due to the fact that at the time, Karmann Hardtops were not in favor for most of the Porsche folks. (Personally, I always thought they were quite nice...) As such, they were relatively cheap at the time, and Jim wanted to perform the conversion, along with a solution for the always present complaint, that the 4 banger's didn't have enough power. The car is now fitted with a 2.2 liter, 6 cylinder engine, along with a 901 5 speed gearbox. The car carries all Carrera instrumentation, with the dash being converted to a "C" model type, along with a Nardi steering wheel, Recaro sport seats in Connolly blue leather, and carpet in blue factory material. The exterior color has been changed from the original Ruby Red (6202), to Bali Blue (6212). The underpinnings are all 911, with 911S disc brakes, Koni adjustable shocks and a factory 356 rollbar. 7" Fuch alloy's are fitted around, with 185 x 70 VR-15 Fulda tires.” A Cabriolet listed on Ebay a few years ago was identified by 356Talk listers as a Hardtop conversion . Apparently, quite a few Hardtops were lost in this manner.

THE SURVIVORS

The Registry database listed 87 T-5s and 86 T-6s at the start of my research in October of 2006. These numbers include identified cars that have been scrapped. A search of the Registry magazines and correspondence with Hardtop owners in the course of my research has raised the totals to 95 and 97, respectively. The additions to the database also include cars that have been scrapped. As pointed out by Eric Cherneff in the March/April 2006 issue of the Registry magazine, it is impossible to draw statistically valid conclusions from the Registry database. However, one can always speculate. It seems to me that because the Hardtop model was out of popular favor and has historically sold for less than the Coupe models, it is likely that a higher proportion of Hardtops than Coupes met their end as unrestored rust buckets. Eric Cherneff’s article shows that the Hardtop models have the highest percentage of “no longer exist” in the database. The value just wasn’t there to salvage. Add in the conversion factor and the number of survivors drops. I have also been told that because Hardtop models were cheaper than Coupes and had the structural reinforcements of Cabriolets, the Hardtops were popular for conversion to race cars. Ned Bacon sent me a photo of his race car that is frequently seen on the West Coast (Figure 15). George Bryan wrote, “I had an SCCA race car in 1990 that was a notchback with top cut off. Many notchbacks were parted, more were made into race cars for SCCA, many were parted out. The attitude back then was ‘there is nothing too bad you can do to a notchback - the ugliest car ever made’. I always liked them.” George currently has a T-5 driver and a T-6 that he is restoring. George sent me Figure 16. I have labeled it an “exploded view” of his T-6 in primer. It is my opinion that there aren’t that many intact driveable Hardtops still out there.

THE OWNERS

I was fortunate to hear from many current Hardtop owners who responded to my requests for information about their cars. All the owners enjoy owning a 356 that is relatively rare and a bit different. Harvey Rosenthal has two T-5s (Figure 16). Wesley Minear has a beautiful T-6 (Figure 17). Judy Hanna has a concours car in California (Figure 18). Phil Harris wrote from New Zealand stating that he had a T-6 and thought that there were three more in New Zealand. John Walsh has 3 Hardtops in New Hampshire. In addition to those individuals previously mentioned, thanks also to Fred Coward, Ken Haselwander, Bill Bradle, Jerry Bartlett, Paul Domitrovic, Sid Wilde, Tom Abbot and Richard Bowker.

[Adam Wright]

Mark, that pic I posted is your "Notchback King"