On headlight lenses....

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keith lee
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Re: On headlight lenses....

#46 Post by keith lee » Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:25 pm

Although the topic of this thread is headlight lenses, it may be a good place to discuss buckets as well?
From this thread, I have learned which of the headlight lenses in my T6B is correct and I have been able to source a second correct lens.
In doing so, I purchased a complete Sept '57 bucket (Hella).
I was going to use the entire bucket, but noticed that the aiming screws on the 57 bucket are at 5 o'clock and 7 o'clock. It also has a single rivet ring with no Hella logo.
The buckets in mine have the aiming screws at 7 o'clock and 2 o'clock. (FWIW, I think one of my buckets is original and one is a later replacement and both are Hella)
Was there a change in aiming screw position from early to late buckets?
Further, I have perused the Barndoor headlight thread on the Samba, which appears to be the most definitive early German headlight thread available, but it would be nice to have a repository of info on later (55-65) buckets.
For one thing, I have not been able to decipher how to date my late buckets???
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Re: On headlight lenses....

#47 Post by Jan Kolm » Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:35 pm

If your 356B was a U.S. or Canadian-market car, the original Hella buckets would have adjusting screws at 5 and 7 o'clock.

Pictures, especially of the stamped part numbers and date code on the underside of the bucket will help tremendously.
Jan Kolm
356 Registry #1066
1960 1600N Coupe

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keith lee
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Re: On headlight lenses....

#48 Post by keith lee » Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:14 pm

T6B was US delivered.
Here is a photo of the text on the bucket. From what you have said about the aiming screws being at 5:00 and 7:00. I guess this is not an original bucket. What can you tell me about it?
Thanks
Image
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Jan Kolm
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Re: On headlight lenses....

#49 Post by Jan Kolm » Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:38 am

keith lee wrote:T6B was US delivered.
Here is a photo of the text on the bucket. From what you have said about the aiming screws being at 5:00 and 7:00. I guess this is not an original bucket. What can you tell me about it?
Thanks
Image
The date code (K 15) indicates the bucket dates from the 15th week of 1973(?), assuming "I" was not used.
Jan Kolm
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1960 1600N Coupe

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Re: On headlight lenses....

#50 Post by keith lee » Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:53 am

Thanks Jan
I know I speak for many when I offer a hearty thank you for sharing your wealth of knowledge on the minutia of headlights for the old German autos!
One more thing, was the 2 and 7 O'clock aiming screw configuration adopted as a later refinement, or was it mixed in with earlier buckets as well?
I have another set of buckets with 2 and 7 O'clock configuration with date codes A4.
These are January '64 buckets?
The primary obstacle to discovery is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge.
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Re: On headlight lenses....

#51 Post by Jan Kolm » Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:54 pm

keith lee wrote:Thanks Jan
I know I speak for many when I offer a hearty thank you for sharing your wealth of knowledge on the minutia of headlights for the old German autos!
One more thing, was the 2 and 7 O'clock aiming screw configuration adopted as a later refinement, or was it mixed in with earlier buckets as well?
I have another set of buckets with 2 and 7 O'clock configuration with date codes A4.
These are January '64 buckets?
For Hella sealed beam assemblies, the diagonally-opposed adjuster screws were cut into 356 production in December, 1963. For cars with assymetric fluted lenses (non-US/Canada LHD cars), I believe both Bosch and Hella adopted this design earlier, possibly as early as 1960.

"A4" represents the 4th week of January 1964.
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Re: On headlight lenses....

#52 Post by David Jones » Tue May 26, 2015 3:41 pm

Some questions come to mind on headlights, specific and general.
I have 2 59 T2 cars, both made in 58. I am attaching pictures of the headlights on the cabrio (red car) and coupe (blue car) I am fairly sure that the correct configuration for the position of the parking light bulb is in the forward position as opposed to the rearward position which is behind the locking spring, correct? There is also a picture of two headlights on the shelf with the two positions. Do the part #'s tell the tale?
Were there any dealers who installed VW headlights on 356's when they were delivered in the USA knowing that many dealers dealt in both makes. I wonder because other than the printed part #'s inside the light assemble there is no way to know unless it had the VW logo on the lens and I do not know if the logo was on every VW headlight.
Does anyone know what paint matches the inside bucket behind the lens? Which headlight to trim ring rubber seal lasts longest. The black, grey or white?
I am in process of preparing a pair of headlights for my 59 cabrio so want to make sure I get it as correct as I can with the parts I have now acquired.
Attachments
P1010355.JPG
P1010354.JPG
P1010353.JPG
P1010352.JPG
P1010351.JPG
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Re: On headlight lenses....

#53 Post by Jan Kolm » Wed May 27, 2015 7:53 am

David Jones wrote:Some questions come to mind on headlights, specific and general.
I have 2 59 T2 cars, both made in 58. I am attaching pictures of the headlights on the cabrio (red car) and coupe (blue car) I am fairly sure that the correct configuration for the position of the parking light bulb is in the forward position as opposed to the rearward position which is behind the locking spring, correct? There is also a picture of two headlights on the shelf with the two positions. Do the part #'s tell the tale?
Were there any dealers who installed VW headlights on 356's when they were delivered in the USA knowing that many dealers dealt in both makes. I wonder because other than the printed part #'s inside the light assemble there is no way to know unless it had the VW logo on the lens and I do not know if the logo was on every VW headlight.
Does anyone know what paint matches the inside bucket behind the lens? Which headlight to trim ring rubber seal lasts longest. The black, grey or white?
I am in process of preparing a pair of headlights for my 59 cabrio so want to make sure I get it as correct as I can with the parts I have now acquired.
The only original bucket for your '59 is the assembly date-coded "27T" (27th week of 1958). The other two buckets are also 356. The black bucket that is date-coded "2S" = 2nd week of 1957--note the location of the parking light--T1 to T2 running change? The gray bucket is T5 ("W3" = 3rd week of 1961).

The lenses on the red car are correct for T2-early C (possibly also late T1). The lens on the blue car is 356C/'64-'67 VW.
Jan Kolm
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Re: On headlight lenses....

#54 Post by James Davies » Wed May 27, 2015 9:12 am

Wolfsburg West has very nice headlight lens seals. They are black.

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Re: On headlight lenses....

#55 Post by David Jones » Wed May 27, 2015 10:53 am

Jan,
Thanks very much for the information, I guess I now have to start searching for the correct headlight lenses for the blue "A" coupe. At least I know the headlight lenses are correct on my 64C even if they may not be the correct date codes. I think if I can find the correct lenses I will be happy.
I think I will have quite a few headlights for sale in the near future.

Thanks James for the info on Wolfsburg West. I already have both grey and black seals so I was wondering if anyone has knowledge of which is better quality.
If I had known I would live this long I would have pushed the envelope a little harder.
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Re: On headlight lenses....

#56 Post by David Jones » Thu May 28, 2015 9:59 pm

Jan,
Can you ID this headlight part. I have a lot of parts and am going to sell all my extras so I would like to know what I have. This date code threw me and the strange adjustment feature is unusual to say the least.
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IMG_2601.JPG
If I had known I would live this long I would have pushed the envelope a little harder.
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Re: On headlight lenses....

#57 Post by Jan Kolm » Fri May 29, 2015 12:53 am

David,

Get ready for lots of email...

This is a December 1954 sealed beam bucket (M12, the "18" is not significant). Correct for 356s with a dual-filament park/turn signal light assembly.

This particular bucket may have been manufactured by VW under license, as there are some detail differences from the normal Hella markings.
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Re: On headlight lenses....

#58 Post by James Davies » Fri May 29, 2015 9:08 am

David, as Jan says, that's a pre-A bucket. This is how adjusters worked on the Hella assemblies 1954 and earlier.

Jan, for the Hella buckets, isn't the "12" in M1218 the 12th week? I've seen "38 N" on a '55 bucket. Or where these xx18 buckets (possibly produced under license) labeled differently?

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Re: On headlight lenses....

#59 Post by Jan Kolm » Fri May 29, 2015 10:52 am

James Davies wrote:David, as Jan says, that's a pre-A bucket. This is how adjusters worked on the Hella assemblies 1954 and earlier.

Jan, for the Hella buckets, isn't the "12" in M1218 the 12th week? I've seen "38 N" on a '55 bucket. Or where these xx18 buckets (possibly produced under license) labeled differently?
James,

Being manufactured under license, the buckets have a different date code that contains the Hella year code, the month in either one or two digits and usually the number "18" (possibly VW option M18, which identifies the existence of export market-specific exterior lighting variations).
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Re: On headlight lenses....

#60 Post by James Davies » Sat May 30, 2015 1:29 am

Thanks for the clarification Jan. Very helpful.

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