Import 356 from the US over NL to Germany (Changes VAT Rates

[Udo Scharf]

Hi all,

today I got a mail from my forwarder in Rotterdam (NL). the Government CHANGES VAT RATES IN THE NETHERLANDS from 01/01/2011. you have to pay 19% VAT instead of 6% till 12/31/2010

Here is what I got today:
IMPORTANT NOTICE – CHANGES VAT RATES IN THE NETHERLANDS

On 21 December 2010, Dutch Government has agreed to Tax Reform Plans for 2011. These plans include the decision that the current low VAT rate for the import of art objects and antiques will be changed to the normal VAT rate.

There are still NO import duties (0%) for the import of oldtimers in The Netherlands, but the VAT will be subject to the general rate as of January 1st, 2010 (19%).

For all goods purchased before January 1st which will be declared with Customs after January 1st, SCL Rotterdam will file a letter of objection with Dutch Tax Services / Customs free of charge.

This is interesting to all, who want to buy a car in the US.

[Dan Macdonald]

Udo,
Will it be less expensive to ship through Antwerp? And is it even possible.
As you know, Antwerp and Rotterdam are not that far apart.
Dan

[Peter Bosch]

Udo,
Will it be less expensive to ship through Antwerp? And is it even possible.
As you know, Antwerp and Rotterdam are not that far apart.
Dan

Hi Dan,

Antwerp customs is charging 21%.

[Steven J. Jackson]

Isn't the final VAT bill based on final destination? If a car enters through the Netherlands but the final destination is France, for example, wouldn't the VAT be according to French law, which is currently at 5.5% for "classic" cars over 30 years old? I know there are people who import through Belgium, Germany and the Netherlands with a final destination in France rather than going through the more expensive French ports such as Le Havre. I'd appreciate clarification on this.

[C J Murray]

Isn't it the responsibility of rich car collectors in the E.U. to pay their fair share to support National Health Care, bailout Greece, bailout Ireland, and public employee early retirement pensions?

[Gerry McCarthy]

CJ:
I an tell, you are MY kind of guy!!!

[Peter Bosch]

Isn't it the responsibility of rich car collectors in the E.U. to pay their fair share to support National Health Care, bailout Greece, bailout Ireland, and public employee early retirement pensions?

Of course. But tell that to the market. Maybe they will listen.

[Steven J. Jackson]

Frankly, I'd much rather give my tax dollars (euros) to national health and retirement schemes per the EU system than the US system of giving (far more) tax dollars to banks so they can squander it with absolutely no return to it's clients or taxpayers, but somehow this forum doesn't seem the right place to air these lofty ideas.

Any real ideas on the original posting here?

[C J Murray]

Steven- There is not much difference between the E.U. and the U.S. these days. Taxes are going higher because the Ponzi scheme is crumbling. Why whine about paying taxes on your toy cars? The economy is fluid and when Europeans can no longer afford the VAT they will stop buying cars until the price with VAT is what they are willing to pay. US sellers will need to sell the cars cheaper or the E.U. buyer will have to pay more. It will seek it's level. Tax evasion is not very honorable but political awareness and activism is. If you don't like it ask your politicians to make changes.

As a US taxpayer I did not like it when our government bailed out the banks. I liked it even less when they also bailed out European banks! Even still, French taxpayers also bailed out banks and entire countries just like certain US States are bailing out other US States that went overboard with social programs and public worker benefits. If you like that then just pay your taxes.

[Steven J. Jackson]

A. I'm not whining about paying taxes
B. I'm only suggesting following the in place tax scheme according to the country of final destination and not port of entry, and even then am only seeking clarification on the original post.
C. What on earth are you rambling on about?

[C J Murray]

A. OK
B. The website that I found states that all E15 countries have the same VAT rate except that an individual state can, with permission, reduce the VAT on some items but not to a rate lower than 5%. Don't ask about E12 countries. Then there is duty as well. The law is very complex and the website goes on forever. Good luck. Ask a professional.
C. The answer to your post.

[Steven J. Jackson]

You are talking about regular VAT rates being equal across the EU....but in France, for example, there is a lower VAT rate on automobiles and motorcycles that are over 30 years old. VAT on imported vehicles drops to 5.5% instead of 19.6% (and 0% import duty) and the vehicle is also no longer required to pass EU laws of conformity on safety equipment (in other words, original equipment is accepted). which could add thousands of euros on top for changing stuff over to euro norms, such as windshield, mirrors, tail lights, safety belts, etc. A 30 year old car is exempt from any of that.

I'm not a professional but I have imported about 6 cars and this is my experience.

I believe our friend from the Netherlands is concerned that this VAT exemption for their country is now disappearing.

It seems to me that looking for better value on the importation of a car by selecting a cheaper port or simply informing yourself on other possibilities isn't tax evasion....it's thrifty shopping! and smart, too.

[C J Murray]

I would think that the actual charge for using the port facility is paid by the shipping company and passed on as a part of the shipping costs depending on which port the customer choses.

I think that Duty is used to handicap imported products to protect domestic producers and therefore old cars should be exempt.

Wasn't the idea of the EU to simplify the differences between European countries? Anyway, there is wiggle clause so that individual countries can charge less on certain items. So, if a landlocked EU country has 5% VAT, the only way to take advantage is to airfreight the car there? Or, if you live in Rotterdam, 19% VAT, you would have to airfreight the car to the landlocked country to avoid the additional 14%? Is the EU really that screwed up? I would understand if the high rate was charged to the citizens of the overtaxed country but why does the citizen of an "efficient" country have to pay more? Here we would call that "taxation without representation" which we fought a revolution over. Regardless, all EU taxes are on the way up and what one country does today will be copied by the others tomorrow.

In the US you pay duty, if any, at the port. Duty is a Federal tax. Then, when you register the car in PA you pay 6% sales tax. Car dealers are exempt and the car is not taxed until the end user titles and licenses the car. Different states have different tax rates but the tax that you pay is based on where you live and has nothing to do with where the port is located.

[Peter Bosch]

I have contacted Belgian customs and also customs in Le Havre (France). If someone who's mother tongue is French want the original text, please let me know.

They seem to apply the same rules. The car can be imported at 6%, but then you can't drive it. It has to be used as a museum piece.

We used to have the weird situation that Antwerp charged 21% and Tienen (also Belgium) 6%. You can guess where we were declaring the cars. But now it's equal, 10% customs and 21% VAT.

Le Havre : 10% and 19,6%.

Rotterdam 19% vat, don't know if any customs taxes apply here.

[C J Murray]

I have contacted Belgian customs and also customs in Le Havre (France). If someone who's mother tongue is French want the original text, please let me know.

They seem to apply the same rules. The car can be imported at 6%, but then you can't drive it. It has to be used as a museum piece.

We used to have the weird situation that Antwerp charged 21% and Tienen (also Belgium) 6%. You can guess where we were declaring the cars. But now it's equal, 10% customs and 21% VAT.

Le Havre : 10% and 19,6%.

Rotterdam 19% vat, don't know if any customs taxes apply here.

Two different rates in Belgium? Strange! I guess Antwerp didn't get much business? Tienen must not have understood the "museum" rule.

It looks like all countries have gone to the higher tax. That was predictable.

Does that mean that people in France that paid 5.5% and are driving their cars are breaking the law? Doesn't the licensing arm of the government know that the full VAT was not paid and that they should not issue a plate? Wait until the government finds out that there are tax scofflaws out there driving their museum cars! More tax revenue and some stiff fines will be very attractive to the tax man.

Is the VAT rate determined by the country where you live or where the car enters the EU?

Is it correct that the subsequent sales from EU owner to EU owner are VAT free? In the US we pay the same tax every time the car changes hands.