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 Post subject: Lost Porsche 356
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:42 pm 
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I have been contacted by a man in France who bought a car in the USA, 5 months ago from the european vintage car company in Scottsdale Arizona. The owner of the european vintage car company he bought it from will not answer his calls and emails. He has not any indication of the car he paid for being sent to him.... he is now trying to find the car.
I know people personally that have had this same experience with this used car dealer.
they have only been able to get their purchased car by finding it's actual location and owner.

does anyone know where this car is?

Just for information, the car is a Porsche 356 A 1957.
http://www.europeanvintagecarcompany.co ... icleID=372
Ruby Red/Brown; 4 cylinder; Matching numbers; In 2007 the car was repainted correct color but not a good paint job, engine and transmission completely rebuilt in 2011, suspension new, brakes rebuilt, fuel system restored, no rust.
Chassis # 58837
Engine # P64544

may also have been restored in Phoenix in 2008?

can anyone provide any info?

regards.

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 Post subject: Re: Lost Porsche 356
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:17 pm 
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George,

I just looked up the car company whose website address you posted.
http://www.europeanvintagecarcompany.co ... icleID=372
I also Googled up the company name European Vintage Car Company, and through the Better Business Bureau found the following address:

15210 N. Scottsdale Road, Scottsdale, AZ 85254

Here is what the Better Business Bureau says on their website about this company:

"BBB Accreditation
On 12/15/2011 the business's accreditation from BBB was revoked.
The revocation was due to violation of BBB Accreditation Standards:
8A. Avoid involvement, by the business or its principals, in activities that reflect unfavorably on, or otherwise adversely affect the public image of BBB or its accredited businesses. This business is not BBB accredited."

This address, according to Google Maps, is in the middle of a parking lot of the Kierland Commons Shopping Center in Scottsdale, Arizona. Ironically I was just there yesterday having lunch with my son at the Cheese Cake Factory that is in that shopping center and parked in that very same parking lot, almost exactly where the marker on the arial photo attached is located. I sure didn't see any car company there. I will go up there again today to check it out and let you know.

Charlie White
Scottsdale, Arizona


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 Post subject: Re: Lost Porsche 356
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:24 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 12:12 pm
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most likely the car is not in Arizona or, if it is, not in the possession of the European classic car company.

most of the cars are sold on consignment and are somewhere else.

also, while the address of the dealer is known, there is nothing really there.
I know people who have been there looking for cars they had bought.....

another car sold there, that I know personally, was in Chicago although the dealer mentioned here, said over the course of a year it was in many other locations but, never Chicago.

thanks Charlie.

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 Post subject: Re: Lost Porsche 356
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:24 pm 
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George,

I went back to that address this morning as it is not far from me. There is no car company at that address. I spoke to the Center's Security Office and Management office, and there is no other car company there, and never has been. The center is a very high end speciality retail and restaurant center, and while it does have some office space there, no company with that name or in that business has ever been a tenant.
Think you friend got scammed.

CW

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 Post subject: Re: Lost Porsche 356
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:32 pm 
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Thanks again Charlie,

I knew nothing was there and the other location I know about is in Cave Creek.
I believe that is the dealer's house.

However even if scammed the car is still a real car and does exist....

Anybody have location ideas or has seen the car?

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 Post subject: Re: Lost Porsche 356
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:40 pm 
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Location: Los Gatos, CA
I'm a bit confused George. Why would it matter where the actual car is? Are you suggesting that even after your friend got scammed that he's still entitled to the actual car, wherever it might be? That doesn't seem correct.

Or, does he love the car so much, he's willing to buy it again from the actual owner?

Regards,
-Greg

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 Post subject: Re: Lost Porsche 356
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:01 pm 
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Location: North San Diego County, California
Could there be a hint in the ad found at the posted link?
"Recently Sold. Sold in Germany".
Gary

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 Post subject: Re: Lost Porsche 356
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:14 pm 
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without finding the car we do not know who really owns it.

was it a scam? OR just very bad customer service?

does the guy who just bought it five months ago own it?

without dragging any names through the mud....

the dealer who "sold" the car does have real cars on consignment but,
he seems to take the money and not deliver the cars.
maybe not paying the "real" owner who has consigned the car.

when he sells another car to someone else he may then be able to pay for the first car and get that one to a new owner....but this does not happen in a reasonable time.

Ponzi scheme....


My only interest here is not in discussing the dealer's action or reputation....
it is to find the car [/color][/color]for the man who has paid for it

WHERE IS THE CAR? is the only important question right now.[/color]

if anyone would like further explanation please contact me directly with your phone number and I will be happy to discuss it.

WHAT WE NEED TO DISCUSS IS DOES ANYONE KNOW THE WHEREABOUTS OF THE CAR?

regards,

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Last edited by george batho on Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Lost Porsche 356
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:15 pm 
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Location: Off Interstate 75 Midway between Chattanooga and Atlanta
Looks awful green for Arizona....
I'm just sayin'..


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 Post subject: Re: Lost Porsche 356
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:44 pm 
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You might be able to track it down through the California license plate shown in the last picture.


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 Post subject: Re: Lost Porsche 356
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:20 pm 
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Location: Lafayette, LA
The VIN number comes up in the database here. It was last reported on in 2007. There is even a phone number. I would start there and work your way to the present owner.

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 Post subject: Re: Lost Porsche 356
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:02 pm 
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Greg Scallon wrote:
I'm a bit confused George. Why would it matter where the actual car is? Are you suggesting that even after your friend got scammed that he's still entitled to the actual car, wherever it might be? That doesn't seem correct.

Or, does he love the car so much, he's willing to buy it again from the actual owner?

Regards,
-Greg

Assuming he can prove that he paid for the car, it became his at that time. Any subsequent purchase is not legally valid as the car was stolen property and thus the current possessor of thecar is not the "actual owner". One cannot take legal title to stolen property.

Regards, John

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 Post subject: Re: Lost Porsche 356
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:15 pm 
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Location: Los Gatos, CA
But John, it sounded to me like his friend paid a fake dealer for a car that was either never for sale or for sale somewhere else. If a scammer posts a car for sale without the owner's knowledge and someone pays the scammer for it, it's still the owner's car.

Regardless, it's George's right to try and sleuth out the car for whatever reason so I'll end my comments here.
-Greg

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 Post subject: Re: Lost Porsche 356
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:42 pm 
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It's like the line in The Matrix,
"There is no spoon."

When you pay a scammer for pics of a car, you realize, there is no car. In the old days a guy would sell a car to several people, and they all got to fight over it, because there actually was a car, but in today's world, you are paying for pictures.

I have a couple of rules when it comes to buying cars I can't touch. Yes, sometimes you have to buy cars without ever touching them or meeting the seller, and there is an element of risk. But you can minimize the risk by following a few rules.

1. Always talk to the seller on the phone, not just email, if you can't get him on the phone, than run away, even if he is really deaf or just had jaw surgery (yes, I have heard both of those lines).
2. Ask for an additional pic of the car, something they wouldn't probably have from pics stolen off the web, like the inner part of the battery box, or under the dash. If the seller can't produce the pics, run away.
3. Ask for a picture of the car dated today, I have buyers ask me for this all the time, here is one I took with a 59 Cab going to Italy.
4. Western Union, enough said.

Bottom line, if someone wants you to wire them double digit thousands they will jump through a few hoops, if they won't, at best they are hiding something about the car, at worst, it is like the spoon, there is no car.


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 Post subject: Re: Lost Porsche 356
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:16 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 12:12 pm
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the point here really is that to find the car answers all of these questions.

the dealer is real and so is the car but, what is the relationship and did he have the right to sell the car?
does he have the car and is just not delivering it?

all of this is answered by finding the car.

then it will be known who really owns it and the true situation with the dealer will be revealed.

so, still looking for the car.....

thanks!! :D

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