Condenser life span

[Robert Stonerock]

Question: I am having similar problems as have been mentioned with earlier authors on this thread and suspect the condenser??? I purchased a new condenser (Bosch-made in Turkey) No improvement. The condenser was defective. The old condenser was also defective. I checked out all the carburetor potential issues and am satisfied that my problem is electrical. Where can one source a reliable condenser these days? Also having trouble with new replacement rotor cap and rotor wearing contacts prematurely. The rotor was fully seated. (Brown Bremi Cap for the 022 distributor.) I posted a thread with photos last week, but before I go beat myself up again, I would like to have a new rotor, cap and condenser that I can use to see if I can locate my problem. Reliable source for these items today????

bob
356C Coupe #222382

[Paul Kust]

And the solution is always the last thing you check! Murphy's Law!

[Mervyn Hyde]

True Paul. I had a Bosch GB 505 on there for quite a while but when I had the BR18 distributor rebuilt and curve tested on the Sun, the guy put on a 'new' condenser. That lasted 8 months. Now I have one of my GB 505s on again and I also found another cheaply yesterday Bob, on FleaBay. They can be a pain to fit without pulling the distributor and disturbing the timing, but now done.

[Bill Oldham]

Please send me your bad condensers. I am trying to work out a test for bad condenser you can do with simple volt/ohm meter in the car. So far I have only one bad one and it is one which is sporadically bad (needs to run for 5 min to go bad). I would like some which are always bad (i.e. the car runs bad from the get go until you put on new condenser). If I can get a reasonable sample of bad condensers I have hopes of finding a quick test.
Thanks
bill oldham
(email me for my California address... I am not supposed to put it here).

BTW for those wondering how often to swap condensers in tune up, my advice is do not swap at all.... a good condenser, especially one of the older ones made properly, can last a lot longer than the new inferior ones. These are not like electrolytic capacitors which will always fail with age, rather they are just a dielectric sheet with metal on both sides simply rolled up and stuck in a can. I suspect its the construction that leads to failure, but do not know that for a fact.... need to do tests.
bill

[Mervyn Hyde]

Email sent Bill

[Mark Pribanic]

I drove my 356 over 25K miles last year. It seemed like every 2000 miles my condenser would fail. Mine were also Made in Turkey. Will have to see if I still have them or if I trashed them. There is a thread on the samba about the condensers made in Turkey being junk.

[Mervyn Hyde]

Is it possible that some of the newer higher output coils are related to condenser failure? Or is it just a (modern) design issue for a less in demand product (condenser). This guy seems to have done what you are doing Bill, and pulled a few apart to see that was happening. His results are interesting and his replacement even more so.

http://www.nonlintec.com/sprite/cap_failure/

[Bill Oldham]

Steve Maas's discussion is helpful. And it suggests some more approaches for tests so I am still looking for more failed caps... I want to see if it's possible to diagnose "in situ". Thanks
Bill

[Mervyn Hyde]

Bill I have heard good things about the 'hot spark' system with 6v cars (as against the Petronics ones). They have the advantage of eliminating the condenser. Any feedback on these: http://www.hot-spark.com/1-3BOS4C2-6N.htm

Another alternative may be to use a modern moulded solid state capacitor instead of the seeming flawed condenser designs we have on offer? Such as http://au.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Corn ... evJM1khQ==

[Mervyn Hyde]

I am quite interested in the HotSpark system on my 6V. It is supposed to be better than the Petronix. Has any one tried it?

However, I think I know the answer. Maybe on 12V, but not on 6V.

So then, back to the construction limitations of the condensers we currently have on offer. I am thinking of trying a modern film type solid state capacitor, as above. No experience off these?

[Steve Proctor]

Two questions relative to Pertonix discussion. 1) Ed, you mentioned that Pertronix can be 4* off. Not sure what that means. Can you elaborate? 2) Mervyn, you mention the system that interested you is better than Pertronix. Sounds interesting. Would be interested in the data that support that conclusion.

Thanks,

STP

[David Jones]

The accuracy of the spark initiation on the Pertronix or the "Hot spark" system depends on the position of the magnets moulded in to the signal ring that snaps down on to the shaft. The four magnets must be at exactly 90 degrees to one another to keep the timing correct. This means very tight manufacturing tolerances and if there is for instance a +/- 1 degree tolerance that can translate in to 2 degrees easily and if the tolerance is slack then the 4 degrees mentioned would easily be attained. On top of that with a 6 volt system the tendency is for no spark to occur on battery voltage to the sensor dropping below the trigger threshold of 5.2 volts.That is easy to do on a cold morning with thick oil and/or a less than perfect battery.
The stock system is very reliable given good maintenance and we have a number of vendors who can overhaul distributors for a reasonable price which should work as well as any electronic system given the low rpm needs of our engines. The only real advantage of these electronic systems is the elimination of the points. I really doubt the claims of increased performance but if one were to check all the claims I and they were true I doubt the difference would amount to very much at all given the mileage most cars are driven. Timely maintenance is more important than optional extras of dubious advantage.
Just my opinion and I should admit I do run a Permatune because it still uses the points and eliminates the condenser and I can convert back in minutes if necessary.

[Richard Shilling]

I'd never heard of the 123 unit but a few years ago it got very positive reviews on the Registry:
http://123ignitionusa.com/porsche/

[Mervyn Hyde]

Thanks David - a nice explanation.

Steve, in my own mind I suspect that the HotSpark and Petronix are essentially the same. "Data" you ask. I could search the journals and reports, but my source of information on this is a respected distributor and ignition system rebuilder here who does many hundreds for cars between 1910 and 1970. He swears he has never had a problem with the HotSpark.

My issue is with the condensers we are offered. I have now had two fail and I believe I will again, perhaps at not such convenient time. I am OK keeping the points on my 6V system but I would like to take out the condenser variable if possible. Hence the associated interest in a solid state/film capacitor as well.


On the 123 Ignition. I saw it in action yesterday on a couple of 356's at one of our race days in Australia. Both users had no installation problems and we really pleased.

[Richard Shilling]

This very interesting discussion about condenser life got me thinking. I worked on cars for some 16 years - 1963 through 1979. While I certainly don't remember every car I ever worked on some things stick in my mind. While every tune-up included plugs, points and condenser, I don't remember a customer coming in with a car that was running bad because of the condenser. I remember replacing two coils over that time frame, but not one condenser. This is not to say that they never went bad, but I think it was not very common. I guess this also means that I threw away a lot of perfectly good condensers.