Shroud removal with engine installed -- Success

[Steven J. Jackson]

(Note from the moderator to future readers of this topic: it is about removing the fan shroud from an engine in a 912, not a 356. It is being left in this Forum since the engine is basically the same as a 356, but as others have noted in this topic, it is much more difficult to remove a fan shroud from a 356 engine while it is in the car than it is to remove the fan shroud from an engine in a 912. This note was added on 01-11-12.)

After my most recent posting on the need to inspect and change the oil cooler on my '68 912, I decided to go ahead and try remove the shroud without taking the engine out. I was encouraged by Greg Spreeman who had gone through the same process last week but on a 356. I documented what I did and would like to share it here. Thank you all for your input on my last posting. Apologies if my technical vocabulary is failing.

What I did to remove the shroud: (I recommend taking a few photos to you get everything put back together the way it came off!)

Jack up rear of car and place jack stands under torsion bar supports. I only raised the car to the point the rear tires started to lift slightly. Leave floor jack under engine to support it.

Disconnect shifter linkage from rear of tunnel via access trap and remove aluminum shifter
thing with the shifter bushings in it. (sorry, don't know what that's called).

Remove two large engine mounting bolts from the interior of engine compartment.

Lower engine about 8-10 inches. Be cautious of the transmission shaft touching the round hole that's the entry point of the tunnel as not to put any force on the shaft.

Remove Carbs and fuel lines. (back nuts nearest the intake the hardest to get out. I found it easier to remove them from the front rather than the back with a stubby deep offset snap-on wrench.) My carbs are webers, don't know if it would be easier or harder with zeniths or solexes.

Remove six slot head bolts that hold the shroud in place. Back ones a little tricky.

Disconnect accelerator linkage from behind shroud

Remove bolt that holds oil filter canister and let it flop forward.

Remove pulley from generator

Remove retaining strap from generator

Remove wires from generator, coil

Lift shroud off. You may or may not need to lower engine a little more to clear the ceiling of the engine compartment. Careful not to force on the oil cooler when removing shroud.

et Voila.

Here a couple of photos (click to enlarge). Hope this is useful.

Best,
Steve Jackson

[C J Murray]

You are working on a 912...different. Not 356.

When you tilt the engine/trans down at the rear on a 912 you must be careful not to bend the shift rod that comes out of the front of the trans. Definitely disconnect the shift rod at the rear.

I bet it won't be fun to reinstall the shroud in the car. It just makes more sense to remove the engine.

[Steven J. Jackson]

I actually got the impression from Mr. Spreeman that the 356 would be even simpler to do. Perhaps it does make more sense to remove the engine, but when you are on your own, limited knowledge and equipment, warned of the re-install being more complex than the de-install, and on top, you have to pretty much go through the same process I just completed anyway once the engine is out....it made perfect sense to have a go.

Also, with the engine lowered slightly, access is greatly improved so I'm not anticipating any re-install problems. All in all, it was fairly simple.

[Jim Breazeale]

I actually got the impression from Mr. Spreeman that the 356 would be even simpler to do. Perhaps it does make more sense to remove the engine, but when you are on your own, limited knowledge and equipment, warned of the re-install being more complex than the de-install, and on top, you have to pretty much go through the same process I just completed anyway once the engine is out....it made perfect sense to have a go.

Also, with the engine lowered slightly, access is greatly improved so I'm not anticipating any re-install problems. All in all, it was fairly simple.

You can't "lower" the engine in a 356. In a 356, the engine is supported by the transmission. In a 912 the engine supports the transmission. By going to all the trouble (should take about 15 minutes) of lowering the engine in your 912, you were within 15 minutes of having the engine on the ground. Having removed the engine, you would save large amounts of time and frustration. Sorry, your method should not be followed, and has no relavence in the 356 world.
Years ago, my brother and I wanted to see how long it would take to remove a 912 engine. We started by sitting in a pickup truck that was backed up to a 912. Another friend yelled go anbd started his stop watch. My brother and I exited the pickup truck, lowered the tail gate, lifted the froor jack from the bed of the truck, jacked up the 912, placed stands under the chassis and then put the jack under the engine. I got under the car and removed the fuel line, the 2 bottom engine to transmission bolts, cut the heater cables (saved about 1.5 minutes) and removed the heater ducts from the heater boxes. In the mean time my brother removed the wiring, lowered the engine slightly by removing the 2 cross mount bolts, removed the 2 top engine to transmission bolts. I got out from under the car and manned the jack, lowered the engine to the ground and we lifted the engine into the pick up, put the jack back in the truck, raised the tail gate and got back in the truck. Total time elapsed was 3 minutes flat. Yup, 3 minutes. I was lots younger then so it would probably take the 2 of us 5 minutes today. 912 engines are far easier to remove than 356 engines, not that 356 engines are difficult.
Bottom line.....................remove the engine to change the fan shroud.

Respectfully

[C J Murray]

Steven-Often, you will need to pry the cylinder sheet metal away so that the screw tabs do not go inside the shroud instead of outside where they belong. You can't lower a 356 engine due to the different mounting arrangement. Once you have moved it at all you might as well drop it onto the floor where it is easy to deal with. The engine in a 356 can be removed so quickly that cursing at the tin screws on the "front" of the engine just doesn't make sense.

Just because you "can" do something doesn't mean that you should. I guarantee that you can do the job quicker and better the conventional way.

[Steven J. Jackson]

I don't know, I think there's something to be said for eliminating the danger of an accident when working by yourself underneath a car. No regrets here.

[Larry Brooks]

I can't imagine why anyone would want, let alone try, to remove the fan shroud with the engine in a 356. It is such a simple matter to remove the engine and you can check other things like your clutch, t/o bearing, starter bushing, end play, etc. while it's out.

Almost 40 years ago, when I was in a hurry because I decided to do a tune-up before a first date, I wedged a spark plug between the cylinder tin and the head by dropping it and pushing it the wrong way. It wouldn't budge. She lived 40 minutes away and I was supposed to pick her up in 2 hours. I decided the quickest solution was to drop the engine. I jacked the car up, blocked it, pulled the engine, removed the cylinder tin, freed the spark plug, replaced the tin, finished the tune-up, put the engine in and started it up. Elapsed time 44 minutes from start to finish with no one around to help me. Even had time for a quick shower!

Granted, it would be easier to pull the shroud in a 912, but there again there are other benefits of having the engine out to do it. Also, many "leaking oil coolers" turn out to be a cracked case so you might end up pulling the engine anyhow. I think a person could drop the engine/Transaxle in a 912 in just a few more minutes that it took to do it with the engine in the car.

On another note - now would be a good time to replace the missing insulation pad above the engine in your 912. Pretty easy with engine dropped down.

[Jim Breazeale]

I don't know, I think there's something to be said for eliminating the danger of an accident when working by yourself underneath a car. No regrets here.

Balancing your engine on a floor jack is far more dangerous than having it sit on solid ground, out from under the car. I'm glad you were successful and didn't hurt yourself or your engine. That still doesn't make it the ideal way to perform the oil cooler seal replacement. To each his own.

Regards

[Steven J. Jackson]

Contrary to the header note from the moderator claiming the job being more difficult on a 356, I was inspired to do this job by Greg Spreeman who told me he removed his shroud without removing the engine just last week. According to Greg, it was a simple job. Up until I heard from him, I was resigned to remove the engine. I would appreciate Greg chiming in on his experience with his 356.

[Charlie White]

Steven,

Glad you got your fan shroud out, whatever method you used. But what did you find out about the oil leak!

CW

[Dave Wildrick]

About 10 years ago, I followed the Maestro’s procedure for checking the oil cooler on my 64C for a leak by backing the engine out (and down) slightly--just enough to get the fan shroud/generator off. Then you have to reconnect the coil and fuel line and plug the line to the oil filter can, etc., in order to run the motor for a few minutes to see where the leak is.

The method works fine, but after you find the leak, you get to reverse the whole process. I probably won’t do this again because it takes way too long and is a lot of unnecessary work.

If you insist on running the motor to pinpoint a leak, you can follow Al Zim’s method of removing the sheet metal over the #4 cylinder area to have a look see at the bottom left side of the cooler. You could also remove just the generator/fan assembly and look into the hole (with the motor running for a short time) to view the cooler from the right side.

[Greg Spreeman]

Okay, I'm the guilty one, I encouraged him to try it. But, it's only because I just pulled my shroud last week while leaving the engine in the car. For a one man band without a lot of tools, pulling the engine and then getting it back in can be a real pain if you're working by yourself. While I've probably pulled and reinstalled the engine some 15-20 with my 356, I can't say that it's ever been that easy. Seems that each time I was reinstalling the engine it was a little too much to the left or right or was threatening to topple over one way or the other. In fact, i was reminded of some of the fun of pulling the engine and reinstalling it when I was reading a thread last week on getting to the top starboard bolt that bolts the engine to the tranny.

[Steven J. Jackson]

Thank you.

[Steven J. Jackson]

ok, new oil cooler installed, all back together and an end to the major oil leak. I guess the case isn't cracked after all.

[David Preston]

Thats good Steven - but you have to tell us - how did you do it - lower the engine slightly, or remove the engine completely?

Thanks.

David Preston