Engine Type 547/0 Serial P90009

356 Porsche-related discussions and questions.
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
Joris Koning
356 Fan
Posts: 2505
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:38 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Engine Type 547/1 Serial P90009

#16 Post by Joris Koning »

Hope this picture will help visualize things
Attachments
11-30-2011-vernon 005.jpg
'56 Coupe
'57 Coupe
'59 Cab 
'60 Coupe

User avatar
Michael Doyle
356 Fan
Posts: 510
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:20 pm
Location: Ventura, CA

Re: Engine Type 547/1 Serial P90009

#17 Post by Michael Doyle »

The pictures Jack and Joris furnished identify what I was describing. Thanks you guys.

The 547/0 4-cam motor (case) was specifically designed for the 550 Spyder tube frame layout and mid-engine design. The oil line routing was taken into account for that. The Spyder motor faces the opposite direction compared to the 356 rear engine design. That is also why a Spyder transmission turns in the opposite direction compared to a 356 transmission.

Porsche engineer, Herr Fuhrmann did take this all into account, he knew the Spyder motor would be perfect for the 356 as well (he wanted one in his car). After the test car "Ferdinand" and the first few pre-A's were fitted with the 547/0 "Spyder" motor (not called a "Carrera" motor") Fuhrmann designed the 547/1 4-cam engine with the case oil line routing designed for the 356 rear engine configuration.

The early Carrera's were not fitted with what people call a Carrera motor. They came with and were marketed by Porsche as having the Spyder motor. Through later marketing and new owner's references the name "Carrera" motor evolved. So, when people look at a 550 or other Spyder model and remark about the "Carrera" motor in it...they are not describing historically what Herr Furhmann would say.

Hope this helps with any questions, and/or any and all opinions...

Michael

User avatar
Frederic Prince
356 Fan
Posts: 655
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:53 am
Location: Paris, France
Contact:

Re: Engine Type 547/1 Serial P90009

#18 Post by Frederic Prince »

thanks for telling this to people like me !!!!!
very interesting ;)

fred ;)©

by the way, happy new year from France to all, specially Jacques LeFriant ;)
1991 - 1993 - 2,7 Targa
2004 - 2013 - 993 Targa
2015 - 2016 3,2 Targa '84
2008...356 roadster T5 S90
2013...2,4 E 72 Sunroof under restoration
2016...3,2 Targa '86
2018...3,2 Speedster '89

User avatar
Jeff Adams
356 Fan
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:54 pm
Location: Connecticut
Contact:

Re: Engine Type 547/1 Serial P90009

#19 Post by Jeff Adams »

The side oiler engines were used well into 356 Carrera production. The parts book tells us that engines 90501 - 90680 were all side oilers, 180 547/1 engines total. The AN fitting on Jack's side oiler is definitley not original, the correct Porsche fittings were two very short pipes cut at 45 degree angles and welded together. Also, according to the parts book, there were 8 different flexible oil hoses used, depending on side oiler/rear oiler AND oil filter placement. Earlier Carreras (again, chassis number cutoffs for Coupe, Cab and Speedster given in parts book) had the ignition coils located on the rearmost firewall and the oil filter and mounting bracket in a more central location. Later Carreras had the coils on the front firewall, and the oil filter on the rear firewall in a slightly different location than before. The results of all this were braided oil hoses with slightly different lengths, depending on engine oil port and filter locations.

Put THAT in your 356 Carrera trivia pipe and smoke it, Michael !!

User avatar
Steve Harrison
356 Fan
Posts: 3301
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:39 am
Location: Auburn AL

Re: Engine Type 547/1 Serial P90009

#20 Post by Steve Harrison »

Four cam Trivia throw down.

I love it.

I am also loving this thread. It's like getting to see "behind the curtain" for regular schmoe's like me. Thanks so much for posting and being so open with your project Jack. Four cam'ers usually keep their cards close to the vest, ha ha.

Here's hoping it's a long, successful thread, with the end result you getting your special car going down the road again.

User avatar
Ron LaDow
356 Fan
Posts: 8092
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:45 am
Location: San Francisco

Re: Engine Type 547/1 Serial P90009

#21 Post by Ron LaDow »

Jeff Adams wrote:The side oiler engines were used well into 356 Carrera production. The parts book tells us that engines 90501 - 90680 were all side oilers, 180 547/1 engines total. The AN fitting on Jack's side oiler is definitley not original, the correct Porsche fittings were two very short pipes cut at 45 degree angles and welded together. Also, according to the parts book, there were 8 different flexible oil hoses used, depending on side oiler/rear oiler AND oil filter placement. Earlier Carreras (again, chassis number cutoffs for Coupe, Cab and Speedster given in parts book) had the ignition coils located on the rearmost firewall and the oil filter and mounting bracket in a more central location. Later Carreras had the coils on the front firewall, and the oil filter on the rear firewall in a slightly different location than before. The results of all this were braided oil hoses with slightly different lengths, depending on engine oil port and filter locations.
How about some photos?
I'd tend to agree that any AN part is wrong, but I'd love to see what's right.
Ron LaDow
www.precisionmatters.biz

User avatar
Michael Doyle
356 Fan
Posts: 510
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:20 pm
Location: Ventura, CA

Re: Engine Type 547/1 Serial P90009

#22 Post by Michael Doyle »

Jeff Adams wrote:The side oiler engines were used well into 356 Carrera production. The parts book tells us that engines 90501 - 90680 were all side oilers, 180 547/1 engines total. The AN fitting on Jack's side oiler is definitley not original, the correct Porsche fittings were two very short pipes cut at 45 degree angles and welded together. Also, according to the parts book, there were 8 different flexible oil hoses used, depending on side oiler/rear oiler AND oil filter placement. Earlier Carreras (again, chassis number cutoffs for Coupe, Cab and Speedster given in parts book) had the ignition coils located on the rearmost firewall and the oil filter and mounting bracket in a more central location. Later Carreras had the coils on the front firewall, and the oil filter on the rear firewall in a slightly different location than before. The results of all this were braided oil hoses with slightly different lengths, depending on engine oil port and filter locations.

Put THAT in your 356 Carrera trivia pipe and smoke it, Michael !!
Hi Jeff,

Happy New Year to you too. I'm not a smoker (well, on second thought...maybe a really good cigar on occasion). I asked/suggested for all opinions, and thanks for sharing your technical-professional one and some of the non-trivial parts book numbers.

The title of this thread Jack started is "Re: Engine Type 547/1 Serial P90009"
I believe his 90009 is a 547/0 model. He states his original motor is 90684. That would be a 547/1...I think you would agree? The first being a 550 Spyder 1500 4-cam side oiler motor, and the second for his 356A Carrera GS 1500 4-cam which is the correct "oil line" configuration for his car...to the oil tank, the oil filter, etc.

It's simply my hope this discussion helps Jack with his "very" unique Dean Jeffries 356A Carrera coupe and locating an appropriate 4-cam motor for the car. In purist thinking, it would be nice to see 90009 find its way back into the 550 Spyder now in Italy...and Jack get a 547/1...maybe even finding his original motor.

I'd smoke to that !

Michael

User avatar
Jack Walter
356 Fan
Posts: 403
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 9:36 pm

Re: Engine Type 547/1 Serial P90009

#23 Post by Jack Walter »

The AN fittings on my motor are definitely not correct - they were replaced by a previous owner of the engine who had apparently installed it in a 912! (and who says the 1960's weren't a strange time?) I think I have some of the correct fittings to replace the AN connectors. I have the bracket and oil filter housing that mounts on the rear firewall, the coil mounts, and some of the braided hoses (whether they are the right length remains to be seen - thanks Jeff for something else to worry about). I'll get some photos of some of the other pieces. I know that the oil tank that I have is for a 1600 4-cam instead of the 1500 and that it has been modified a bit for the 912 installation.

I should have titled the thread Type 547 since I suspected that this motor was a /0 instead of /1 - sorry for any confusion that has raised. I'm enjoying digging around in the history and guts of this engine - damn the rods in these things are cool - very pretty pieces inside these engines - its a shame that more of us don't get the opportunity to poke around in them.

User avatar
Adam Wright
Classifieds Monitor
Posts: 10304
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:00 am
Tag: KTF

Re: Engine Type 547/1 Serial P90009

#24 Post by Adam Wright »

Jack said, "Its a shame that more of us don't get the opportunity to poke around in them."

I couldn't agree more, can you send the toy to my house when are done with it? Just kidding, good luck on getting it back in the car, it will be fun, but I suspect your car has been nothing but fun.
www.unobtanium-inc.com
Check out my Barn Find column in the Registry magazine, always looking for good stories.

User avatar
Bil Brown
356 Fan
Posts: 907
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:36 pm
Location: Lincoln, NE

Re: Engine Type 547/1 Serial P90009

#25 Post by Bil Brown »

SAM_0863.JPG
Jack, I don`t mean to hijack your thread, but this is just a bit of 4-cam trivia I thought you might enjoy! In the early 1980s, I bought one of Howard Shoemaker`s "Mickey Mouse" prints of the 4-cam engine from Howard on a visit to Omaha, and he later sent me this note that you see below the print.......Bill.....P.S....I think he meant Jim Perrin.
Attachments
SAM_0862.JPG
Bill Brown

User avatar
Jack Walter
356 Fan
Posts: 403
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 9:36 pm

Re: Engine Type 547/1 Serial P90009

#26 Post by Jack Walter »

Feel free to hijack away - how else are we going to learn anything? As long as we don't degenerate into a discussion of squirrel migration patterns it's all good. I'm learning some new stuff about an engine I've owned for almost 40 years - without the resouces of the nice folks on this board think how difficult it could be trying to put something back together that's over fifty years old. I really appreciate everyone that's chiming in on this thread.

That's a very cool drawing that I've never seen before.

User avatar
Michael Doyle
356 Fan
Posts: 510
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:20 pm
Location: Ventura, CA

Re: Engine Type 547/1 Serial P90009

#27 Post by Michael Doyle »

Perhaps the 356 Registry powers that be might consider there being a new
Forum category titled something like "4-cam and Carrera"..?

I believe there to be enough unique interest level and learning available in it...

Michael Doyle

User avatar
Steve Harrison
356 Fan
Posts: 3301
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:39 am
Location: Auburn AL

Re: Engine Type 547/1 Serial P90009

#28 Post by Steve Harrison »

A revival of the old "Four Cam Forum"

User avatar
Andrew Hosking
356 Fan
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Engine Type 547/1 Serial P90009

#29 Post by Andrew Hosking »

As we are all seeking group type 547 knowledge, I have a photo of a 550 at a race in 1955, which does not have the standard set up. Situated to the rear, is that an additional oil or fuel tank??

Image
http://type550.com/

User avatar
Michael Doyle
356 Fan
Posts: 510
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:20 pm
Location: Ventura, CA

Re: Engine Type 547/1 Serial P90009

#30 Post by Michael Doyle »

Steve Harrison wrote:A revival of the old "Four Cam Forum"
Steve,

There used to be (long ago) an independent group/club, with magazine publication, known as the 4-cam Registry. The fella that was the lead for that group now lives up in Fresno or Sacramento maybe..? (his name escapes me at the moment..may have been a Steve also)

But this 356 Registry certainly seems to have an infrastructure now to easily absorb the content into this Forum. On this Registry, a good friend, Dick Koenig, used to be the lead of the Four Cam Forum. And today Bill Doyle writes a great 4 cam column.

I say it's deserving of a separate category on this 356 Talk site. And perhaps enhance the Gordon Maltby published Porsche 356 Registry magazine.

Michael Doyle

Post Reply