How to I.D. cylinder heads

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George Walling
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How to I.D. cylinder heads

#1 Post by George Walling » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:01 am

I have several heads that I'm trying to figure out which ones to send off to get rebuilt before useing them on my engine which is a 1600S #P704645 616/12. All the parts I have are from a collection my dad gathered up in the mid 70's, I have know idea what the heads come off of. I have 2 912 cases and a think that some of the heads may be from them but I also have other heads that could have come off earlier engines. The 1600S engine was put together with just used parts but never run by my dad back in the mid 70's. He never intended for the engine to run just put it together with all the best parts so that they were together but he has told me he never knew anything about 22 or 30 degree valve angle heads. He is 86 and lost his eye sight and can't help me. I have read about the different heads and seen pictures but was wondering if you can tell the valve angle the heads have by the casting numbers on the heads. I know this maybe a very simple thing to a lot of you folks but this is the first time I've ever attempted to rebuild for my Speedster so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks and Hope you all Have a Great & Safe Holiday.
George E Walling

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Steve Harrison
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Re: How to I.D. cylinder heads

#2 Post by Steve Harrison » Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:51 pm

Hello George,

Heads can be quite confusing if they're loose and the original application engine has can't be determined. I have muddled through the same thing you are doing now. I never did find a comprehensive listing anywhere that listed casting numbers and the head style that it would be. That would be a great resource if someone chose to undertake it.

There are a few broad things that categorize heads, and then you get down to the details which where it gets a little harder. Broadly, the color of the head itself is an indicator,..black means one thing, aluminum means another. If the heads are "split" between the cylinders (not all the way,..just a slit between the two chambers) they're early A. The super 90 had slightly larger intake valves than the others. The exhaust valves in 912 heads are larger than earlier ones. Some 912 heads have a telltale extra casting boss, sometimes drilled, sometimes not, near the intake area intended for smog equipment. Large intake ports (where the carb manifold bolts to) usually mean later heads,...unless someone ground them open. You can also do well to check for the casting date in the head. Usually a number over another number indicating week and year of casting. This can be an accurate indicator but I figure that replacement heads also had the date in them also, so I guess you could find A/B heads with later dates yes?

Broadly, I have found that most people categorize commonly found heads into three broad categories,...A/B heads, Super 90 heads,...and C/SC/912 heads. There are true experts here on the list that will most likely be able to figure out your pile if you post some pictures and answer a few follow up questions they will ask. (I do not count myself as one of them, ha ha.)

Merry Christmas to you and...don't ever repaint the Pink Panther! : )

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George Walling
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Re: How to I.D. cylinder heads

#3 Post by George Walling » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:12 pm

Steve, thanks for the help I will check my heads for date numbers, Maybe I can take my dial caliber and determine what I have by comparing the valve sizes between the heads I have. Just don't want to get heads built and then not have them work with my 1600S engine.
Don't worry about a color change on the Speedster (AKA Pink Panther as you have tagged her) LOL
George E Walling

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David Jones
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Re: How to I.D. cylinder heads

#4 Post by David Jones » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:21 pm

http://www.356registry.org/tech/head-id.html

This link can get you started but the best source if you can find it will be a copy of Harry Pellows "ABC'S" There are a myriad of variations. and there is always the chance the heads you have are already modified. Take pictures or find someone who is knowledgeable in you region to ID them for you.
If I had known I would live this long I would have pushed the envelope a little harder.
Cymru am byth
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George Walling
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Re: How to I.D. cylinder heads

#5 Post by George Walling » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:06 pm

David that link will surely help me also. You would think by now I would remember to search the help archieves before posting for help. Sorry for taking up your time but I greatly appreciate all of the help. Have a Merry Christmas and New Year. George
George E Walling

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Greg Bryan
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Re: How to I.D. cylinder heads

#6 Post by Greg Bryan » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:33 am

I have a partial list of head part numbers that I've compiled from ebay listings when I could see the part number
616 04 205 A/early B
616 104 032 00 62/63 model year B
616 104 301 02 C, SC, Early 912 - SC anodized black; 912 will have the breather hole
616 104 301 03 912 head - my personal favorite head
616 104 301 1R 68 912 with air pump holes or 69 with flat but not drilled for air pump
There are more heads, but these are most of the later ones
Have fun!
Greg Bryan
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Greg Riddel
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Re: How to I.D. cylinder heads

#7 Post by Greg Riddel » Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:35 am

Hi George
I don't want to spoil your Christmas,
but your Engine number would indicate a 1600N, not an S,
as they prefix with an 8.
The number from the A parts book says 616 04 025 for 1300 and 1600 head.
Or 616 104 002 00 for a complete head with valves etc.
Would they all be the same? I wouldn't have thought so.

Hope this doesn't add to the confusion

All the best of the season
Greg

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Re: How to I.D. cylinder heads

#8 Post by Eric Cherneff » Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:33 pm

Greg Riddel wrote:Hi George
I don't want to spoil your Christmas,
but your Engine number would indicate a 1600N, not an S,
as they prefix with an 8.
Christmas is on again! The 5 digit numbers beginning with a 6 or 7 are 1600N (P*6xxxx and P*7xxxx). George's engine is a 616/12, with a 6 digit serial number beginning with a 7 - that's a T6 1600S, similar to the older P*8xxxx engines, except with newer/improved components (big oil pump, late rocker arms, etc.).
Eric Cherneff
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George Walling
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Re: How to I.D. cylinder heads

#9 Post by George Walling » Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:36 am

Eric, thanks for the update on my engine number sure glad to hear it is probably a large oil pump engine and is a super which is what I was lead to believe it was. Have a Merry Christmas. George
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Re: How to I.D. cylinder heads

#10 Post by Greg Riddel » Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:53 pm

Oops, Sorry George.
And thanks Eric. Must have been one too many glasses
of cheap red wine, and the digits became blurry.

Have a happy five or six digit (hic) Christmas,

Greg

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George Walling
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Re: How to I.D. cylinder heads

#11 Post by George Walling » Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:45 pm

Greg, don't worry about it as I couldn't figure out why my numbers said it was a super engine in my book but it must have been my bad eyes or I was having one of those senior moments as I didn't notice the differents between the 5 digit or 6 digits. That is what makes this such a good group of people we help keep each other straight. thanks all for the help. George
George E Walling

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