Excellence 356 Pricing

[Joe Bakhos]

I have had my eye open for a 356A or Pre-A Coupe in very good condition. Many cars I have run across, even without matching numbers, have been priced considerably higher than the Excellence pricing guide. What gives?



http://www.excellence-mag.com/resources ... /887608822

Thanks in advance!

[Adam Wright]

I think Bruce Anderson gets his valuations from fortune cookies, he is either too high or too low, but never really right. All he had ever done for me is someone will have a 356 for sale and people will start quoting Excellence pricing, even though their car is not even on the scale, because it has been in their backyard under a tarp since Jimmy Carter was in office.

[C J Murray]

Hi Joe-I don't really see how anyone can use a "pricing guide" to establish the value of a 50 year old car. If you buy a rust bucket, take it to Maaco and spend $5k on Bondo and shiny paint you have one result. If you buy a car that has never had any rust or crash damage and give it to one of the top end restorers for a $150k restoration then you have a very different result.

The real question is not what the seller is asking but rather what is he selling. An engine rebuild is $10k and a trans rebuild is $3k. Paint done by a quality shop is at least $20k(much more if you want perfection) but even the unrusted cars will need body repairs once the old paint is removed. Interiors are in the 5-10k range. If you are looking at two cars as a possible purchase they will have different needs and potential repair costs. The cheapest way to buy one of these cars is to pay up front for the best one that you can afford. A really nice car with no excuses is worth double what that chart says and is still cheap compared to the cost of a restoration. Conversely, some running/driving cars aren't worth half of the lower number.

[Matthew Devereux]

It is pretty hard to buy an advertised running driver quality 356A coupe for $30k from what I have seen over the last 6 months. There are not many advertised either. You can surely get one at a more reasonable price on an unadvertised sale if you are fortunate enough to be able to network with the 356 crowd in your area. On the other hand, very nice As seem to be advertised for much more than $43k like you mention. Do they sell? I have no idea. I recently found another classic car guide which has much lower prices. #4 cars were around $12k and #3 cars $22k. I think Bruce's low definition is somewhere in that #3-#4 range. That is quite a difference between guides.

[Barry Brisco]

I have had my eye open for a 356A or Pre-A Coupe in very good condition. Many cars I have run across, even without matching numbers, have been priced considerably higher than the Excellence pricing guide. What gives?

Joe, published "price guides" are generally worthless, in my opinion.

Unless the car is sold at a public auction, only the buyer and the seller know what a car actually sells for. Asking prices shown in ads are simply that: asking prices. They are not the selling price, which is often lower than the asking price. And auction prices may be much higher than the typical market price.

Neither Excellence, nor any other publication, knows what cars sell for unless they sell at auction. So where do they get their pricing "information"? Sometimes I think they just make stuff up so as to appear useful and knowledgeable (and to get you to buy their magazine). But as you have discovered, their price ranges do not correlate with the real world.

Best regards,

[Roy Lock]

As a commentary to Excellence prices, it is fortunate/unfortunate, depending on which side of the fence you sit on, that they and a few resellers set the chinning bar for prices.
We get to see the high end with some resellers and then we get off the chart prices from Excellence.
I just looked at Excellence's prices for the 1962 Roadster in top condition and he says $115k. I personally don't think you can find a driver for that price. I believe the market values are much higher based on recent rumored sales prices. I have been offered way north of that price for mine.

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[Charlie White]

CJ

"The real question is not what the seller is asking but rather what is he selling."

One of the best comments I've ever seen on this subject!!

CW

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[Joe Bakhos]

I appreciate the feedback.

So being that I am a first time 356 buyer, what would be the best way to get an accurate estimate of a car's worth located outside my state of residence? Do Pre-A's justify a significant premium, what if a restored car does not include the original engine?

Thanks again,
Joe

[Barry Brisco]

Hi Bill,

Given how far off from real world prices the Excellence guide actually is, if they are using real data, they need to examine their data collection techniques. You said that they use "a collection of anecdotes". That's not what I would call "data".

They are welcome to sue me. Can I hire you to defend me?

Of course their guide has a disclaimer in the fine print shown in the screen capture Joel posted. So if we add 50% to the upper value we may perhaps include most of the cars sold. And then the range becomes so wide as to be useless.

Price "guides" like this are neither useful nor relevant. What matters is if the car meets the needs of the buyer, and if they can afford what the seller is asking for the car. Obviously there is a very wide range of selling prices for any particular year/model of car. That's because the range of condition is very wide. And trying to categorize cars as to condition is a very difficult, and very subjective, process.

Obviously -- do I really need to state this? -- that is my personal opinion. My name is on this post, no one else's.

Best regards,

[Barry Brisco]

So being that I am a first time 356 buyer, what would be the best way to get an accurate estimate of a car's worth located outside my state of residence?

Joe, there is no way to "accurately" estimate the value of a 50 year old car. The value is whatever you are willing to pay and the buyer is willing to sell for.

It always surprises me that people seem to believe that a given 50 year old car has a specific "value". It does not. Every potential buyer will have a different opinion of the value. That said, if you got several very experienced 356ers to inspect the same car, they might possibly agree on a market value range within $10K or so. Or they might not.

If you can't inspect the car personally, post on 356Talk asking for assistance and give the city/state location of the car. Those who are willing to help, for free or for money, can then contact you.

Good luck,

Barry

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[Barry Brisco]

Bill, in the context of the discussion in this topic, there is no difference between "value" and "price". 356 automobiles do not have an "inherent" value that is independent of what a particular buyer would pay for a particular car at a particular moment in time. Their price/value will fluctuate over time even for the same buyer/seller pair, and certainly for other buyer/seller combinations for that car or other similar cars. Long term the value/price of 356s may trend downwards, or upwards, based on future events that no one can predict.

There is a fair amount of confusion many places about "value" and "price." Value is inherent. Price is subject to the whims of the marketplace. Tulips, for example, are valuable in that they provide visual and aesthetic joy. Their price rose dramatically during the 17th century. The value of MySpace remains debatable although its price has fluctuated wildly. Real property in the Inland Empire is valuable because it enables working stiffs to purchase a home. The fluctuations in price ended the American dream for many. Coastal property is inherently more valuable because surfing is a basic human need.

Until said California coastal property falls into the ocean due to landslide or earthquake. Then it's value goes to zero. That's not very "inherent".

Best regards,

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