New member, future 356 cabrio owner and confused about my future car?
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- 356 Fan
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- Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2023 8:56 am
- Location: Switzerland
New member, future 356 cabrio owner and confused about my future car?
Hi All,
Living in Switzerland, owning a Porsche 993 cab, I have been dreaming on owning a 356 for many years!
I have been driving a MGA Roadster while on the look out.
After 5 years of searching, I believe I found my gem
I found a 1963 BT6 Porsche cabriolet in Swizterland, original colour but with a non matching engine. The car has been stored for 30 years in a garage close to where I live and is in an excellent shape as I can tell. Some work needs to be done on body but no rust at all, cabrio needs some work. Engine is sound, fuel pump is leaking and brakes are stuck. All doable.
A few things than I am confused about and for which the seller (grandson of owner) could not help.
Maybe you all can?
Attached a few pictures:
The chassis number (158384) seems to be a 1963 BT6 by Reutter, swiss licence says first registration July 3 1963. Good.
The transmission number (50817) seems to be matching the year. Good.
The engine number seems to be 61615 and from what I found, it is « older » than 1963?
The Porsche SC badge on the car seems to be wrong ? Was it put there by previous owner (deceased in the meantime)?
I decided to buy the car, but spending the week end to know as much as possible about the car so I can negociate the prize.
Can’t wait!
Sunny greetings from Switzerland
Pat
Living in Switzerland, owning a Porsche 993 cab, I have been dreaming on owning a 356 for many years!
I have been driving a MGA Roadster while on the look out.
After 5 years of searching, I believe I found my gem
I found a 1963 BT6 Porsche cabriolet in Swizterland, original colour but with a non matching engine. The car has been stored for 30 years in a garage close to where I live and is in an excellent shape as I can tell. Some work needs to be done on body but no rust at all, cabrio needs some work. Engine is sound, fuel pump is leaking and brakes are stuck. All doable.
A few things than I am confused about and for which the seller (grandson of owner) could not help.
Maybe you all can?
Attached a few pictures:
The chassis number (158384) seems to be a 1963 BT6 by Reutter, swiss licence says first registration July 3 1963. Good.
The transmission number (50817) seems to be matching the year. Good.
The engine number seems to be 61615 and from what I found, it is « older » than 1963?
The Porsche SC badge on the car seems to be wrong ? Was it put there by previous owner (deceased in the meantime)?
I decided to buy the car, but spending the week end to know as much as possible about the car so I can negociate the prize.
Can’t wait!
Sunny greetings from Switzerland
Pat
- Sebastian Gaeta
- 356 Fan
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- Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Re: New member, future 356 cabrio owner and confused about my future car?
Pat,
Welcome and congratulations!!
To answer your questions, the website by Eric Cherneff 356a.com shows your engine to be a 1956 "Normal". The engine experts will chime in here and will tell you that is probably not th eideal engine for your car in the long run for a few reasons, but will suffice for now,
The SC badge is obviously not correct but fear not, the correct "60" badge will fit the same holes as the "SC" badge uses so no worries about any additional holes in the body.
It's very early where I am and I am on my way to an event, but you will no doubt receive many noce replies here about your car. It looks great and you will immensely enjoy your time not just with th car but th epeople here who will offer up any help you need along the way.
Welcome and congratulations!!
To answer your questions, the website by Eric Cherneff 356a.com shows your engine to be a 1956 "Normal". The engine experts will chime in here and will tell you that is probably not th eideal engine for your car in the long run for a few reasons, but will suffice for now,
The SC badge is obviously not correct but fear not, the correct "60" badge will fit the same holes as the "SC" badge uses so no worries about any additional holes in the body.
It's very early where I am and I am on my way to an event, but you will no doubt receive many noce replies here about your car. It looks great and you will immensely enjoy your time not just with th car but th epeople here who will offer up any help you need along the way.
Sebastian Gaeta
www.arbormotion.com
Registry #8339
'65 C coupe
'64 C cab
-------
2014 Boxster 981
2005 997 C2 Cab
1967 Karmann Ghia Convertible
1966 VW Single Cab
1966 Ducati Cafe Racer
1964 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1963 Beetle
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Registry #8339
'65 C coupe
'64 C cab
-------
2014 Boxster 981
2005 997 C2 Cab
1967 Karmann Ghia Convertible
1966 VW Single Cab
1966 Ducati Cafe Racer
1964 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1963 Beetle
- Vic Skirmants
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Re: New member, future 356 cabrio owner and confused about my future car?
Welcome aboard, Pat. The transmission number indicates the trans was built in October 1961, but the "KD" in front of the number shows that it was a factory rebuilt unit.
Question on the engine number; is it really 61615, or is that the designation on the right side engine case; 616/15? That would be a 1964-64 356C engine. Also it has a 912 fan shroud.
Question on the engine number; is it really 61615, or is that the designation on the right side engine case; 616/15? That would be a 1964-64 356C engine. Also it has a 912 fan shroud.
- John Brooks
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Re: New member, future 356 cabrio owner and confused about my future car?
Contact Josef Pit Schweiger. In Geuensee. At JPS air cooled. Josef can help you sort it out
John Brooks
62 Roadster
66 912
84 Cab
getting pushed around in porsches since 1965
62 Roadster
66 912
84 Cab
getting pushed around in porsches since 1965
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- 356 Fan
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Re: New member, future 356 cabrio owner and confused about my future car?
Thank you all for the first answers. Could the engine number be the 741 02x I noticed on the picture? As I am a newbie, I didn’t take all the right pictures while checking out the car. I can’t fin such a number on the Porsche registry database.
Pat
Pat
- Martin Benade
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Re: New member, future 356 cabrio owner and confused about my future car?
No, that’s the transmission type.
Cleveland Ohio
62 Cabriolet
56 VW
02 IS 300
04 Sienna
62 Cabriolet
56 VW
02 IS 300
04 Sienna
- Mike Wilson
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Re: New member, future 356 cabrio owner and confused about my future car?
Congrats! One other observation. The fan shroud is for a 912.
Mike
Mike
Mike Wilson
Lomita, CA
'63 B coupe
Lomita, CA
'63 B coupe
- Marcus van Bers
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Re: New member, future 356 cabrio owner and confused about my future car?
Pat, congratulations. Beautiful looking car from what I can see. You should be able to find the engine number here, circled in red.
63 B Karmann Coupe
60988
60988
- Al Zim
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Re: New member, future 356 cabrio owner and confused about my future car?
This car was manufactured after 1 January 1963. That is when SOME COUNTRIES insisted on the European delivery exhaust system. I believe these were Germany and Sweden The BAD news is that parts for the exhaust system on European Deliver vehicles is that there are no parts. That is a 60 year old car. If it has been driven in the winter Most cars were! there was no rust proofing on the car. You may be LUCKY! an underside of the car shows less than normal wear. Rust needs a careful analysis. The Zenith Carburetors have not been assembled correctly. 63 carburetors are usually better than 1962 and earlier carburetors i have had limited experience with the oil filler which is different on the European cars, but this one seems to be incorrect I may have forgotten their distinct characteristics after 60 years.
In March or April 1963 There was a distinct change in manufacturing the engines. Use your parts book and it will tell you what these new case numbers are. I believe that number will start as P*00* 8XXXXX or P*00*7XXXXX. This is a better case to own. Find someone (and individual friend)that is really smart and has experience. Pump that person for all the information that you can obtain. al zim Bueno Suarte
The transmission has the mount cast into the case for the camber compensator I think that started after 1961.
In March or April 1963 There was a distinct change in manufacturing the engines. Use your parts book and it will tell you what these new case numbers are. I believe that number will start as P*00* 8XXXXX or P*00*7XXXXX. This is a better case to own. Find someone (and individual friend)that is really smart and has experience. Pump that person for all the information that you can obtain. al zim Bueno Suarte
The transmission has the mount cast into the case for the camber compensator I think that started after 1961.
Last edited by Al Zim on Mon Oct 30, 2023 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New member, future 356 cabrio owner and confused about my future car?
It could also be a super or s90, a kardex or COA will tellSebastian Gaeta wrote: ↑Sat Sep 02, 2023 5:24 am Pat,
Welcome and congratulations!!
To answer your questions, the website by Eric Cherneff 356a.com shows your engine to be a 1956 "Normal". The engine experts will chime in here and will tell you that is probably not th eideal engine for your car in the long run for a few reasons, but will suffice for now,
The SC badge is obviously not correct but fear not, the correct "60" badge will fit the same holes as the "SC" badge uses so no worries about any additional holes in the body.
It's very early where I am and I am on my way to an event, but you will no doubt receive many noce replies here about your car. It looks great and you will immensely enjoy your time not just with th car but th epeople here who will offer up any help you need along the way.
Jules
Water pumps are for windshield washers only.
Water pumps are for windshield washers only.
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Re: New member, future 356 cabrio owner and confused about my future car?
Welcome to the best car club in the world. Join the Swiss 356 Club. They are active and a great gang. .................Jim.
Jim Liberty
- Juha Vane
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Re: New member, future 356 cabrio owner and confused about my future car?
Pat, someone might start to look for tar and feathers, but I wouldn't be too much concerned about numbers matching.
Aren't you getting the car to enjoy it, driving around and tinker with it in the garage? If it's something special and you
would put on display in a museum, then number matching can be important.
Of course with the numbers you have an idea what you are buying, but how important are they in use?
My reasoning with my somewhat non-original 356 is that there are "plenty" of fine restored cars, so a couple of
outlaws won't be a problem.
Aren't you getting the car to enjoy it, driving around and tinker with it in the garage? If it's something special and you
would put on display in a museum, then number matching can be important.
Of course with the numbers you have an idea what you are buying, but how important are they in use?
My reasoning with my somewhat non-original 356 is that there are "plenty" of fine restored cars, so a couple of
outlaws won't be a problem.
KTF,
Juha Vane
Finland
'59 308
'63 356
'85 911
Juha Vane
Finland
'59 308
'63 356
'85 911
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- 356 Fan
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Re: New member, future 356 cabrio owner and confused about my future car?
Thanks again, great forum and people
I got some answers from the owner of the garage the car is stored at. The good thing is that he did his apprenticeship 60 years ago at the local Porsche garage, on the 356, couldn’t find a more passionate guy.
The engine is a 616.15 (see picture), with 75HP, dated 1964 according to his documents. He also tells me that the car is a 1963 356 B type SC T6.
As you all say, no big difference for me, more a « get to know the car » I fell in love with.
Now the ball is in my field to see how much I can « negociate » the car.
I’ll keep you posted.
Thanks again
Pat
I got some answers from the owner of the garage the car is stored at. The good thing is that he did his apprenticeship 60 years ago at the local Porsche garage, on the 356, couldn’t find a more passionate guy.
The engine is a 616.15 (see picture), with 75HP, dated 1964 according to his documents. He also tells me that the car is a 1963 356 B type SC T6.
As you all say, no big difference for me, more a « get to know the car » I fell in love with.
Now the ball is in my field to see how much I can « negociate » the car.
I’ll keep you posted.
Thanks again
Pat
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Re: New member, future 356 cabrio owner and confused about my future car?
shouldn't one check the numbers on the thrd piece??
Jay D.
Jay D.
jay darlington
- Sebastian Gaeta
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Re: New member, future 356 cabrio owner and confused about my future car?
But that is not the engine serial number, look on the generator mount as seen below.Pat Schoettker wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 10:57 am Thanks again, great forum and people
I got some answers from the owner of the garage the car is stored at. The good thing is that he did his apprenticeship 60 years ago at the local Porsche garage, on the 356, couldn’t find a more passionate guy.
The engine is a 616.15 (see picture), with 75HP, dated 1964 according to his documents. He also tells me that the car is a 1963 356 B type SC T6.
As you all say, no big difference for me, more a « get to know the car » I fell in love with.
Now the ball is in my field to see how much I can « negociate » the car.
I’ll keep you posted.
Thanks again
Pat
Once you can tell us that number we can determine which engine is in the car.
Sebastian Gaeta
www.arbormotion.com
Registry #8339
'65 C coupe
'64 C cab
-------
2014 Boxster 981
2005 997 C2 Cab
1967 Karmann Ghia Convertible
1966 VW Single Cab
1966 Ducati Cafe Racer
1964 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1963 Beetle
www.arbormotion.com
Registry #8339
'65 C coupe
'64 C cab
-------
2014 Boxster 981
2005 997 C2 Cab
1967 Karmann Ghia Convertible
1966 VW Single Cab
1966 Ducati Cafe Racer
1964 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1963 Beetle