What kind of oil should I use / what is the "best" oil?
- Ken King
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:30 am
- Location: Hot Springs Village, AR
Re: What kind of oil should I use / what is the "best" oil?
After my post last summer, I did switch to the Mobil 1 15W-50 synthetic oil. I read somewhere that dino oils deteriorate when exposed to cold temperatures. Since I was buying the stuff by the case of 12 quarts (two at a time, in fact), I was concerned that I was using oil that was not up to spec, right out of the bottle, after it had gone through a couple of winters sitting in the garage. Moreover, there are many other advantages to synthetic oil, including better chemical and shear stability, better Viscosity Index and better resistance to evaporation, oxidation and thermal breakdown (from Wikipedia, "Synthetic Oil"). For good measure, it is about the cheapest oil of all those recommended in this blog, when bought in a 5 quart jug. A friend told me he had been using the Mobil 1 oil for years with no problem.
The only concern I've heard about synthetic oil is that it may leak more, but most engines have probably been rebuilt with better seal materials. I've not noticed any difference. Brad Penn is a semi-synthetic, so presumably one would already have the issue with that oil. Googling "synthetic oil advantages" turned up a good discussion on Howstuffworks, "Why would I upgrade to a synthetic motor oil?" If you're looking to get maximum engine life, I feel certain that the best oil is a synthetic, and the 15W-50 oil Mobil makes is designed for flat tappet engines with the recommended levels of zinc and phosphorus. You can check out the levels (1200 & 1300) here, page 2:
https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us/pv ... guide.ashx
In my book, that makes it the "best oil" winner.
The only concern I've heard about synthetic oil is that it may leak more, but most engines have probably been rebuilt with better seal materials. I've not noticed any difference. Brad Penn is a semi-synthetic, so presumably one would already have the issue with that oil. Googling "synthetic oil advantages" turned up a good discussion on Howstuffworks, "Why would I upgrade to a synthetic motor oil?" If you're looking to get maximum engine life, I feel certain that the best oil is a synthetic, and the 15W-50 oil Mobil makes is designed for flat tappet engines with the recommended levels of zinc and phosphorus. You can check out the levels (1200 & 1300) here, page 2:
https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us/pv ... guide.ashx
In my book, that makes it the "best oil" winner.
Last edited by Ken King on Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:07 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Ken King
- Brian R Adams
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 3330
- Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:34 pm
- Location: N. Nevada
Re: What kind of oil should I use / what is the "best" oil?
Like most manufacturers and distributors, they don't put ZDDP information on the container, nor does West Marine mention it on their web site. I relied on the API rating CI-4/SL which indicates the oil does not meet the newer SM or SN ratings which have the reduced ZDDP levels.Frank Leonetti wrote: Brian, do you still use/recommend West Marine? There is a West Marine near me but I can't find any info about its ZDDP content.
Thanks and thanks to all for your info, experience and research that benefits all of us.
Look on the label. If it says "CJ" (the diesel application) or "SM", "SN" it's not same stuff.
Brian
PS Here is the stuff they have today:
http://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-mari ... 86_002_511
You want the 15W-40. Description says:
"API Service Classifications: CF-2, CD-II, CD, CF, CE/SJ, SH and SG"
These are all older classifications, and should indicate legacy levels of ZDDP.
Welcome to the era of policy-based evidence-making.
Difficile est saturam non scribere (Juvenal)
Difficile est saturam non scribere (Juvenal)
- Brian R Adams
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 3330
- Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:34 pm
- Location: N. Nevada
Re: What kind of oil should I use / what is the "best" oil?
I transcribe here a post I made to a similar thread back in 2011:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27099
When an oil bottle says "CJ-4, CI-4" it means it meets the newer and more stringent "CJ-4" which requires the reduced ZDDP and trumps the "CI-4" part. Just because it also meets the older CI-4 requirements doesn't mean it also has the levels of ZDDP that were present in CI-4 or CI-4 Plus formula. I know it's confusing, so I should have said if you see "CJ-4" (and/or "SM") on the bottle, stop right there, read no further, and forget it, it is not what you are looking for (if you are looking for the old high levels of ZDDP.)
Simple, huh?
I cite Charles Navarro's (a sometime contributor to this forum) treatise on this topic. Some excerpts (added italics for emphasis are mine):
"I do not recommend the use of any SM or CJ-4 motor oils in any air-cooled Porsche"
"Many cam manufacturers have recommended Rotella T in the past for cam break in. Remember, this was the CI-4 Rotella T some manufacturers were recommending, not the new CJ-4 Rotella."
Here are typical P (Phosphorous) and Zn (zinc) for the older and newer API ratings:
CI-4: P:1150 Zn:1374
SL: P:994 Zn:1182
CJ-4: P:819 Zn:1014
SM: P:770 Zn:939
Read Charles' entire treatise here:
http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27099
When an oil bottle says "CJ-4, CI-4" it means it meets the newer and more stringent "CJ-4" which requires the reduced ZDDP and trumps the "CI-4" part. Just because it also meets the older CI-4 requirements doesn't mean it also has the levels of ZDDP that were present in CI-4 or CI-4 Plus formula. I know it's confusing, so I should have said if you see "CJ-4" (and/or "SM") on the bottle, stop right there, read no further, and forget it, it is not what you are looking for (if you are looking for the old high levels of ZDDP.)
Simple, huh?
I cite Charles Navarro's (a sometime contributor to this forum) treatise on this topic. Some excerpts (added italics for emphasis are mine):
"I do not recommend the use of any SM or CJ-4 motor oils in any air-cooled Porsche"
"Many cam manufacturers have recommended Rotella T in the past for cam break in. Remember, this was the CI-4 Rotella T some manufacturers were recommending, not the new CJ-4 Rotella."
Here are typical P (Phosphorous) and Zn (zinc) for the older and newer API ratings:
CI-4: P:1150 Zn:1374
SL: P:994 Zn:1182
CJ-4: P:819 Zn:1014
SM: P:770 Zn:939
Read Charles' entire treatise here:
http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html
Welcome to the era of policy-based evidence-making.
Difficile est saturam non scribere (Juvenal)
Difficile est saturam non scribere (Juvenal)
- Thomas Sottile
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 1535
- Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:02 pm
- Location: Stamford CT
- Contact:
Re: What kind of oil should I use / what is the "best" oil?
picking an oil is like picking a woman, they all will pretty much do. Some cost more, some last longer, others are better for certain needs. some come in large containers and others in small. some are pure others are synthetic your pay money you take your choice.
- Sonny Caudill
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 86
- Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:11 am
- Location: Alaska
Re: picking an oil
I use Valvoline VR1 in our older cars ('60 356 and '66 427 Corvette) since it has a higher Zinc content and is designed for racing applications and older type motors. I've had good luck with it. I like dino oil for our old cars since it has a tendency to leak a bit less than the slippery synthetics (which I run in everything we have that is newer). I think most any oil will work fine these days...Just change it regularly and you'll be good to go!!
1960 356B
- Richard Sjolund
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 206
- Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:40 pm
- Location: Iowa - USA
- Contact:
Re: What kind of oil should I use / what is the "best" oil?
Jeffrey Leeds wrote:Ken, you might also consider Mobil 1 V-Twin, (20W-50) which is a motorcycle oil with nominal levels of Phosphorus of 1600 PPM and ZDDP of 1750 PPM. This is readily available through Amazon and many local FLAPS at competitive prices.
Neil Fennessey, our resident academic for matters such as this, recommended this oil to me several years ago, and supplied me with some from his own stash, when I found myself at the bottom of my dip stick at Lime Rock, and it has worked well for me.
Also Porsche Classic has "determined" that 20W-50 is the "appropriate" mix for air-cooled pre-'89 engines, and this fits that parameter as well.
I've been using the V-Twin Mobil 1 20W-50 for several years. A good feature is that you can find it in a auto parts store in a small town when you are far from home ---- that was not true during my short switch to Brad Penn ....
Dick Sjolund
Solon, (Iowa City), Iowa
1964 (September, 1963) 356 C Coupe #215661 (Ruby Red, color:6402)
(On the 356 Registry cover- November, 2005)
- George Walling
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 992
- Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 1:01 pm
- Location: Merrill, Southern Oregon
Re: What kind of oil should I use / what is the "best" oil?
Richard is this V-Twin 1 Mobile a synthetic or conventional oil ?
George E Walling
- Richard Sjolund
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 206
- Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:40 pm
- Location: Iowa - USA
- Contact:
Re: What kind of oil should I use / what is the "best" oil?
George Walling wrote:Richard is this V-Twin 1 Mobile a synthetic or conventional oil ?
It is synthetic.
Dick Sjolund
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:22 pm
- Location: Dayton, OH
Re: What kind of oil should I use / what is the "best" oil?
I'm glad someone has mentioned V-Twin because I've been running it in my 993TT with success, as have many other 993TT guys. It's the only oil that doesn't smoke like a freight train at startup, including Motul 15w50 300v. It seeps through the turbo bearing seals into the compressor and gets ingested.Richard Sjolund wrote:Jeffrey Leeds wrote:Ken, you might also consider Mobil 1 V-Twin, (20W-50) which is a motorcycle oil with nominal levels of Phosphorus of 1600 PPM and ZDDP of 1750 PPM. This is readily available through Amazon and many local FLAPS at competitive prices.
Neil Fennessey, our resident academic for matters such as this, recommended this oil to me several years ago, and supplied me with some from his own stash, when I found myself at the bottom of my dip stick at Lime Rock, and it has worked well for me.
Also Porsche Classic has "determined" that 20W-50 is the "appropriate" mix for air-cooled pre-'89 engines, and this fits that parameter as well.
I've been using the V-Twin Mobil 1 20W-50 for several years. A good feature is that you can find it in a auto parts store in a small town when you are far from home ---- that was not true during my short switch to Brad Penn ....
Dick Sjolund
Solon, (Iowa City), Iowa
1964 (September, 1963) 356 C Coupe #215661 (Ruby Red, color:6402)
(On the 356 Registry cover- November, 2005)
It is my understanding that it has been able to maintain the high levels of Zinc/Phosphorus because motorcycles don't have cats which get fouled by high concentrations of the metals and aren't as regulated for emissions in general. I don't run cats on my 993TT so it's a non-issue.
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 1280
- Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:57 pm
- Location: Northeastern MA
Re: What kind of oil should I use / what is the "best" oil?
For anyone using the Mobil 1 V-Twin oil, Mobil is currently running it's annual rebate promotion of $12 for the purchase of 5 qts. and $15 for the purchase of 5 qts. plus an oil filter (use for your "other" car). Promotion expires May 31, 2016.
Details are here:
https://mobiloil.com/en/promotion/mobil ... obil-super
Details are here:
https://mobiloil.com/en/promotion/mobil ... obil-super
< Jeff >
Registry Member Since 1978
1963 356B T-6 Super 90 Coupe
2009 997.2 Carrera S
2015 958 Cayenne diesel-1 & 2015 958 Cayenne diesel-2
Registry Member Since 1978
1963 356B T-6 Super 90 Coupe
2009 997.2 Carrera S
2015 958 Cayenne diesel-1 & 2015 958 Cayenne diesel-2
- Ian William Stockwell
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:36 pm
- Tag: 356 not just a number
- Location: Andover, Hampshire, UK
Re: What kind of oil should I use / what is the "best" oil?
I am interested in the comments for using V-Twin 20/50 motor oil after all it is designed for 4 stroke air cooled engines.
I have just seen an advert on Amazon UK for "Motor Factory" High Performance 20W50 oil designed for Harley Davidson air cooled 4 stroke engines.
Does anybody know if this is considered good enough for our beloved 4 stroke air cooled engines?
Also, after the interesting article in the Registry magazine ref. oil filters it would seem that not only is the question what the best oil is but also the best filter to match it.
Regards
Ian
I have just seen an advert on Amazon UK for "Motor Factory" High Performance 20W50 oil designed for Harley Davidson air cooled 4 stroke engines.
Does anybody know if this is considered good enough for our beloved 4 stroke air cooled engines?
Also, after the interesting article in the Registry magazine ref. oil filters it would seem that not only is the question what the best oil is but also the best filter to match it.
Regards
Ian
Porsche engine DNA is Flat Four, Flat Six & Flat Twelve NOT Flat Battery Packs
- Kit Sodergren
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 43
- Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:29 am
Re: What kind of oil should I use / what is the "best" oil?
The chemistry of oil additives gets complicated very quickly. Two very good sites on this topic are at LN Engineering and Willhoit Auto Restoration. They've done the analyses and published what they've found. Two brands widely recommended and under $8/qt. are Swepco 306 20W50 and Brad Penn Racing 20W50. The Brad Penn is semi synthetic and available at Zim's, a Registry advertiser. Swepco is mineral based and available at Paragon and other online outlets. Other brands may also be satisfactory, but most are shorter on reliable data.
FWIW on oil filters, I like Mobil1 M1-209.
Happy motoring
Kit Sodergren
Davis, CA
FWIW on oil filters, I like Mobil1 M1-209.
Happy motoring
Kit Sodergren
Davis, CA
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:43 am
Re: What kind of oil should I use / what is the "best" oil?
I typically use brad penn in my 911 engines and have been happy with it. A local race shop sells it very reasonably. 12 quart case for $45-50 I think. No offense to the "Porsche" specific sellers but they seem to run a pretty big margin on it.
-
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 81
- Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:40 am
- Location: Metairie. Louisiana
Oil Recommendation for 356C
I have been using Pennziol 20W-50 oil for sometime. It an API Servive SN oil. I am getting ready for an oil change. Upon reading up on API Srvice SN oils, I am not sure that this is the best oil for my engine. I would appreciate any comments/recommendations on this issue. Thanks, Wyatt Blankingship
Wyatt Blankingship
- Wes Bender
- 356 Fan
- Posts: 4930
- Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:54 am
- Location: Somewhere in the Gadsden Purchase, USA
Re: Oil Recommendation for 356C
Have you checked all the posts here viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27099 ?
Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.....