What kind of oil should I use / what is the "best" oil?

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ray nelson
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Re: What kind of oil should I use / what is the "best" oil?

#136 Post by ray nelson » Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:30 pm

If you're interested in seeing the charts of the oils tested by Jim Comstock here's the link https://www.accessnorton.com/Oil-Tests/NortonOil.php

Be warned that there are around 30 oils tested so far. Also don't ask me how to interpret the charts since I have no idea.
I'm sure some of those with more active brain cells than me can figure it out. :wink:
He updates the results as he tests more oils.

Ray

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Re: What kind of oil should I use / what is the "best" oil?

#137 Post by ray nelson » Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:10 pm

Jim Comstock finished his testing here's his final post;

Well, I went ahead and upped the anti for five of the oils I was considering for my bike.
I set the tester up to start out with the normal 220 degree warm-up for 25 minutes.
Then I set it to run for 5 hours with a set load of 300 lbs, with only cooling for the oil -no cooling for the follower.

I thought I would compare the wear mark on the follower after the test.

Five oils:
Bel Ray V-twin synthetic
Mobil 1 v-twin with BG-MOA
Klots 25W60 with FR3 additive
Red Line 60 with BG-MOA
Royal Purple HPS 20W50

I didn't end up comparing the wear marks. Only one oil survived for 5 hours without breaking down.

And the winner is....... Royal Purple HPS 20W50

It looks like this will be the choice for my bike. Not what I expected.

I am now out of arbor races and the oil tester is being retired to the storeroom.

Thanks again to everyone who contributed to making this happen. I know I learned a lot. 240 arbor races destroyed in the process.

So if you're interested in how all of the oils he tested faired go to the Access Norton website and page through the testing charts. He conveniently has some charts that show recommended oils for different uses .

Ray

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Charles H Jacobus
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Re: What kind of oil should I use / what is the "best" oil?

#138 Post by Charles H Jacobus » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:31 am

Wish you would have test the Porsche Classic oil, I'm really interested in how it would compare with those oils.

Chuck
P.S. I would be happy to send you some if you want to test it
Current:
2012 Silver 991
1995 Midnight blue 993
1965 Red 356C

Past:
Fond memories of 14 others (including a '63 Normal and a 61 S90) :)

ray nelson
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Re: What kind of oil should I use / what is the "best" oil?

#139 Post by ray nelson » Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:59 pm

Chuck
Obviously Porsche doesn't manufacture their Porsche Classic oil so if we could find out who they're rebranding it from it's probably one of the oils Jim tested. However I'm sure Porsche isn't going to tell us that very easily just to protect their sales.
Maybe if we could get the specs on their oil we could make an educated guess.
Just off the top of my head I would think since Porsche promotes Mobil 1 it would be very likely it's one of those products. I seriously doubt Porsche went to the trouble to do extensive testing the way Jim Comstock did.
Jim made a series of lists of oils on this page https://www.accessnorton.com/Oil-Tests/NortonOil.php ranked by expected use of engine from Highly tuned to those that would cause excessive wear. That should be qualified with the caveat I gave earlier that a 356 engine is not likely to see the high RPM abuse a Norton motorcycle engine would see (except for racers like Vic and CJ : ) )
Of course knowing the cost of rebuilding and parts I will probably opt for one of the better performing oils.
I just noticed this statement that Jim posted;

"I found a bad result in the oil tests.
It is the result from 15W50 Mobil 1 with BG-MOA
I got a very high result because the oil heater element had failed.
The BG-MOA only increased the load capacity to 148 in subsequent tests.
It is being removed" (BG-MOA = BG motor oil additive)

Ray

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Re: What kind of oil should I use / what is the "best" oil?

#140 Post by ray nelson » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:14 am

More discussion about "Synthetic" oil from Jim;

"Here is my rant on "synthetic" oils.

The term synthetic is a worthless and very abused word in the oil industry. The truth is all oils are made from the remains of vegetation from the Jurassic period. It will be made from crude oil or natural gas or maybe even coal dust.

If we are lucky we will get a highly refined lubricant in a bottle marked "synthetic". Most synthetics are made from highly refined crude oil.

But, there is no specification or regulation saying what may be called synthetic.
Legally an oil company could bottle some "Head and Shoulders" shampoo and sell it as synthetic oil.
By the way "Head and Shoulders" shampoo will pass a Timkin oil film test with excellent results.

It would be a lot more useful if oil was sold according to the class of lubricant.

Class 1 has minimal refining and contains impurities that reduce it's lubricating qualities.
Class 2 has more refining
Class 3 is better yet
Class 4 and 5 are what we would generally refer to as "synthetics" as they are highly refined
Class 4 are usually PAO bases and Class 5 are usually ester bases.

But oils are not generally advertised this way. Calling the oil company may get the answer or they may just say it is proprietary information.

Royal Purple and MPT said their "synthetics" are a blend of group 4 and group 5 oils.

Mobil 1 would not say. I would guess they're using some group 3 oils in their mixtures."

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Jeffrey Leeds
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Re: What kind of oil should I use / what is the "best" oil?

#141 Post by Jeffrey Leeds » Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:48 pm

A quick overview of Mobil-1 products is available here:

https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us/pv ... -guide.pdf

Of their products commonly available (you can find this at most Walmart's) the V-Twin Air Cooled Motorcycle 20-50 oil has the highest content of Phosphorus and Zinc of their recommended street oils. They show two other "0" oils which are only recommended for racing with a slightly higher Phosphorus and Zinc content.
Registry Member Since 1978

1963 356B T-6 Super 90 Coupe
2009 997.2 Carrera S
2015 958 Cayenne diesel-1 & 2015 958 Cayenne diesel-2

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Al Zim
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Re: What kind of oil should I use / what is the "best" oil?

#142 Post by Al Zim » Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:18 am

For nearly 60 years starting at the first shop in Wilmington Ohio and continuing through our Porsche business we have used Kendall oil in almost all the air cooled Porsche and Volkswagen that we have maintained. Kendall has evolved positively through a number of name changes and serious upgrades from the days of Non-Detergent oil to its present configuration. I do not believe that we had a failure that could be traced to the oil. With the advent of synthetic oils we switched to Mobile One and now have changed to Motol. Perhaps you motor down the freeway at 5,000 RPM'S in your AIR COOLED Porsche for long periods of time. Living west of FT. Worth you can do that! Then you need a SUPERIOR oil. Engines do not make heat unless you make horsepower. A properly assembled engine driven at less than 70 MPH does not need and will probably not profit from the use of an exotic oil. al zim
 

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Harlan Halsey
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Re: What kind of oil should I use / what is the "best" oil?

#143 Post by Harlan Halsey » Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:18 am

Yeah, I agree. I started with Quaker State 10W 40 in the 1960s. That engine survived full throttle 3rd gear up hill race car tows. I still have it. In California I switched to Kendall 20W 50 on Dema Elgin's recommendation in the 1970s. When Kendall became something else, although with the same part number, but not even the same color and Brad Penn took over the old Kendall refinery, I switched the Carrera to 40 weight Brad Penn, and the others to SWEPCO. Now some of the 356s are on SWEPCO, and others are on 15W 50 Mobil one. At the time of the ZDDP scare, I was told that 50 weight oils were unaffected, in that they weren't of interest to modern car manufacturers, and retained the high levels of ZDDP. But that was a while ago.
Now I wonder, Al, why have you moved on from Mobil 1 to the more exotic Motol?

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Jack Kwiat
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Re: What kind of oil should I use / what is the "best" oil?

#144 Post by Jack Kwiat » Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:21 pm

Here's another oil that can be added to the list. https://lucasoil.com/products/hot-rod-h ... -motor-oil
Even though I've been using Valvoline VR1 20-50 wt. I will eventually try this oil out when I go thru my supply of VR1.
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