1960 T5 Restore to Original or Outlaw ?
1960 T5 Restore to Original or Outlaw ?
You can upgrade the mechanicals and electrics to make the car safer and more pleasant to
drive but you cannot improve on Erwin Kommenda's style and flair.
He designed the bodywork of the beetle, all Porsches up to 1965, and more, he was the
most influential automotive designer of the 20th century.
Most of the designers of Erwin's era were exponents of the Bauhaus ideal "form follows
function".
The political changes in Germany in 1933 put an end to the Bauhaus school though
individuals continued practising.
The 356 has Bauhaus stamped all over it.
Some people feel Bauhaus design too stark and try to make the look more comforting
hence outlaws.
Here is a mildly upgraded 356 which has lost none of the Kommenda crispness.
http://www.octane-magazine.com/features ... e_356.html
meker
.
drive but you cannot improve on Erwin Kommenda's style and flair.
He designed the bodywork of the beetle, all Porsches up to 1965, and more, he was the
most influential automotive designer of the 20th century.
Most of the designers of Erwin's era were exponents of the Bauhaus ideal "form follows
function".
The political changes in Germany in 1933 put an end to the Bauhaus school though
individuals continued practising.
The 356 has Bauhaus stamped all over it.
Some people feel Bauhaus design too stark and try to make the look more comforting
hence outlaws.
Here is a mildly upgraded 356 which has lost none of the Kommenda crispness.
http://www.octane-magazine.com/features ... e_356.html
meker
.
Dean Jeffries' Carrera and many other personalized cars are certainly not seen as more 'comforting' to many. Some see Jeffries' car and others as improvements on the Bauhaus philosophy while others will subscribe to the notion that Kommenda's original design can't be improved, although he did that himself with the evolution of the 356. Some would say that those changes weren't improvements, but then beauty is in the eye of the beholder or we would all be driving one kind of car and living a homogenous life.
Perhaps Kommenda was the 'most influential designer of the 20th century', but like all else, that would be disputed by the proponents of the likes of Harley Earl, Guigaro, Pininfarina, Raymond Loewy and Paul Braq, to name a few. The bottom line is, if Mikey likes it, then it's the right one for Mikey.
Perhaps Kommenda was the 'most influential designer of the 20th century', but like all else, that would be disputed by the proponents of the likes of Harley Earl, Guigaro, Pininfarina, Raymond Loewy and Paul Braq, to name a few. The bottom line is, if Mikey likes it, then it's the right one for Mikey.
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PM to Marc and His PM reply
Marc
Hope you don't mind me sharing our PM
From: Rich Behrends
To: Marc Allingham
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:39
Subject: Outlaw
Nobody has brought the fact that many T5 Coupes have been cutup to restore, rebuild the other more desirable T5 models. With that fact in mind the overall amount of T5 coupes left is making them rarer every time one is chopped up. I have a T5 coupe #116076 and I plan to make mine a outlaw. Back when I bought mine in 1980 I wanted to build what I called it back then "HOTROD 356". But I was chastised back then for even thinking about doing that. Funny how times have changed about that outlook. But still some diehards 356 owners think they should remain as built. It's your 356 do what you want.
From: Marc Allingham
To: Rich Behrends
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:41
Subject: Re: Outlaw
Thanks for the additional input Rich. Interesting point about the T5 becoming increasing rare as they have served as donors for other models. I really like the A outlaw and will most likely restore this car to original specs and search for an A worthy of customization. This may seem backwards to some, but I just love the aggressive look of the A. Thanks again!
Marc
Hope you don't mind me sharing our PM
From: Rich Behrends
To: Marc Allingham
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:39
Subject: Outlaw
Nobody has brought the fact that many T5 Coupes have been cutup to restore, rebuild the other more desirable T5 models. With that fact in mind the overall amount of T5 coupes left is making them rarer every time one is chopped up. I have a T5 coupe #116076 and I plan to make mine a outlaw. Back when I bought mine in 1980 I wanted to build what I called it back then "HOTROD 356". But I was chastised back then for even thinking about doing that. Funny how times have changed about that outlook. But still some diehards 356 owners think they should remain as built. It's your 356 do what you want.
From: Marc Allingham
To: Rich Behrends
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:41
Subject: Re: Outlaw
Thanks for the additional input Rich. Interesting point about the T5 becoming increasing rare as they have served as donors for other models. I really like the A outlaw and will most likely restore this car to original specs and search for an A worthy of customization. This may seem backwards to some, but I just love the aggressive look of the A. Thanks again!
Rich Behrends
lurking since March 09
lurking since March 09
A PM should remain a PM. Otherwise you loose trust and the ability to comunicate in private.Rich Behrends wrote:PM to Marc and His PM reply
Marc
Hope you don't mind me sharing our PM
You'll will be sorry. Or at least make sure whatever you do can be reversed.Rich Behrends wrote:Nobody has brought the fact that many T5 Coupes have been cutup to restore, rebuild the other more desirable T5 models. With that fact in mind the overall amount of T5 coupes left is making them rarer every time one is chopped up. I have a T5 coupe #116076 and I plan to make mine a outlaw.
In my opinion, body customizing destroys the lines of a fine automobile.Marc Allingham wrote:Thanks for the additional input Rich. Interesting point about the T5 becoming increasing rare as they have served as donors for other models. I really like the A outlaw and will most likely restore this car to original specs and search for an A worthy of customization. This may seem backwards to some, but I just love the aggressive look of the A. Thanks again!
Take a masterpiece of Art, throw some paint on it here and there. Now go tell everyone you've improved it. The Art community would agree you ruined a fine work of art.
Possibly many don't consider these cars worthy of there original design? Customizing and Outlaws, I don't get it.
I have a very long and involved "Report" that describes, in detail, the lengths I went through to maintain the integrity of a Convertible "D" which I happen to be restoring. The Report is long, but here is a paragraph or two which deals with maintaining correct body lines.
Read on, it may or my not be interesting? A quote from my "Report."
<<<"In the process of restoring any car, character lines and actual factory original features can be changed or altered. An example would be the replacement of rocker panels. One would think a simple task. However, not all after market rocker panels fit the same or fit correctly. Many are shorter than the original and some lack the "wire bead." Some may have an incorrect radius on the ends. To make the installation easier, individuals or restoration shops can and sometimes alter the wheel well opening to match or fit the rocker panels. Absolutely not the way to do this task, yet I've seen this done.
With this said, and understood:
Before any of my metal or bodywork was started, I made wood templates of all-important body character lines and door lines, both vertically and horizontally. Cardboard templates were drawn and made of every wheel well opening and all rocker ends, including patterns of all door, body and fender radius. Wood templates were also made for the headlight buckets and card stock templates were made of the bucket openings.">>
Does all this preparation and extra work guarantee that the car body lines will still remain as original? Possibly not in all cases, it would depend on who is doing the work. But it is a more organized beginning.
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As you stated "In my opinion, body customizing destroys the lines of a fine automobile"charles kourmpates wrote:A PM should remain a PM. Otherwise you loose trust and the ability to comunicate in private.Rich Behrends wrote:PM to Marc and His PM reply
Marc
Hope you don't mind me sharing our PM
You'll will be sorry. Or at least make sure whatever you do can be reversed.Rich Behrends wrote:Nobody has brought the fact that many T5 Coupes have been cutup to restore, rebuild the other more desirable T5 models. With that fact in mind the overall amount of T5 coupes left is making them rarer every time one is chopped up. I have a T5 coupe #116076 and I plan to make mine a outlaw.
In my opinion, body customizing destroys the lines of a fine automobile.Marc Allingham wrote:Thanks for the additional input Rich. Interesting point about the T5 becoming increasing rare as they have served as donors for other models. I really like the A outlaw and will most likely restore this car to original specs and search for an A worthy of customization. This may seem backwards to some, but I just love the aggressive look of the A. Thanks again!
Take a masterpiece of Art, throw some paint on it here and there. Now go tell everyone you've improved it. The Art community would agree you ruined a fine work of art.
Possibly many don't consider these cars worthy of there original design? Customizing and Outlaws, I don't get it.
I have a very long and involved "Report" that describes, in detail, the lengths I went through to maintain the integrity of a Convertible "D" which I happen to be restoring. The Report is long, but here is a paragraph or two which deals with maintaining correct body lines.
Read on, it may or my not be interesting? A quote from my "Report."
<<<"In the process of restoring any car, character lines and actual factory original features can be changed or altered. An example would be the replacement of rocker panels. One would think a simple task. However, not all after market rocker panels fit the same or fit correctly. Many are shorter than the original and some lack the "wire bead." Some may have an incorrect radius on the ends. To make the installation easier, individuals or restoration shops can and sometimes alter the wheel well opening to match or fit the rocker panels. Absolutely not the way to do this task, yet I've seen this done.
With this said, and understood:
Before any of my metal or bodywork was started, I made wood templates of all-important body character lines and door lines, both vertically and horizontally. Cardboard templates were drawn and made of every wheel well opening and all rocker ends, including patterns of all door, body and fender radius. Wood templates were also made for the headlight buckets and card stock templates were made of the bucket openings.">>
Does all this preparation and extra work guarantee that the car body lines will still remain as original? Possibly not in all cases, it would depend on who is doing the work. But it is a more organized beginning.
That's your opinion and you are most certainly can have your own.
But opinions are like butt holes and everybody has one.
If I had a Convertible "D" it would be restored as original also due to it's rarity.
But a T5 coupe is in no way in the same class as a Convertible "D" or Speedsters.
Also you made no comment about the main point of my post.
"Nobody has brought the fact that many T5 Coupes have been cutup to restore, rebuild the other more desirable T5 models.
With that fact in mind the overall amount of T5 coupes left is making them rarer every time one is chopped up."
So since you are so free with your opinions, what's your opinion on that.
Rich Behrends
lurking since March 09
lurking since March 09