air conditioning a 356?

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Terry Garbig · #1 Post by **Terry Garbig** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:10 am

anyone have any experience on air conditioning a 356 coupe or roadster/cab?

Erwin James · #2 Post by **Erwin James** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:14 am

Hi,
Here is the article that provides guidance for air conditioning a 356 as
derwhites356literature.com/356PorscheAC.html
Thanks
auto repair minneapolis

Adam Wright · #3 Post by **Adam Wright** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:44 am

Here is a setup that was for sale a few years ago.

More pics on the blog:

http://unobtaniuminc.wordpress.com/2009/03/03/356-ac/

Alan Lay · #4 Post by **Alan Lay** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:14 am

I have a similiar set-up with 6 volt compressor clutch. I thought that I might install one day but changed my mind.

Alan

Dave Wildrick · #5 Post by **Dave Wildrick** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:35 pm

A few years ago there was a guy in Texas who had designed a more modern A/C unit for the 356. He installed one unit in a C cab owned by the late Fred Starr and in another C cab owned by Alex Goodheart (sp.???) in Australia (alex117@juno.com).
It required converting the car to 12 volts and it cost about $8000. I have no personal affiliation with him but the contact info. was:
Greg Riley
P.O. Box 2155
Cleveland, TX 77328
281-593-2502
Fax 281-593-2358

Adam Wright · #6 Post by **Adam Wright** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:42 pm

I would imagine it robs a lot of power. Porsches' have never been known for their ice cold AC.

Charlie White · #7 Post by **Charlie White** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:00 pm

356 Porsches were NOT designed for Air Conditioning, save for rolling down the windows or putting down the top. As shown in my website on the subject, installing AC in a 356 can really be a hack job! Holes drilled everywhere. In the example on my website, that unit requires 70 feet of 1" diameter hoses. To quote from the website:

"Look at all the hoses that are involved! The flow goes from the Compressor in the back of the car, to the Left Condenser at the front of the car, to the Right Condenser at the front of the car, to the Rear Condenser in the rear deck lid, to the Dryer in the engine compartment, back to the front of the car to the Evaporator, and then back the the rear of the car to the Compressor in the engine compartment! That's a lot of hoses! How many connections do you think are involved? What about all the new holes required in your 356 to install them?"

http://derwhites356literature.com/356PorscheAC.html

I have seen some installations that are very nice and functional, but to retro fit a 356 Porsche today in my judgement would be a disaster. First there's the expense. Second who's going to service it? Third there's the hack job on your car. Anyone of these issues in today's circumstances would be a deal breaker for me. My opinion, sorry, and I live in Arizona. It's your car, however, do as you please.

CW

Martin Minnich · #8 Post by **Martin Minnich** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:35 pm

Considering all the rust repairs we do in the course of a typical 356 restoration, I can't imagine why anyone would make a fuss about having to plug a few holes cut for AC. They'll be on the inner structure and largely invisible. Just my 2 cents.

Kevin Murray · #9 Post by **Kevin Murray** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:51 pm

There's always the Thermidor Car cooler- I think they made one for V-dubs back in the day. Does wonders for the wind resisistance and won't work unless it's a "dry" kind of heat.

Kevin Murray

Charlie White · #10 Post by **Charlie White** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:05 pm

Marty,

I agree with you as an AC installation relates to a rusted out restoration, but to hack up
an unrusted existing 356 to install AC makes no sense to me.

CW

John Copello · #11 Post by **John Copello** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 5:55 pm

that what my wind wings are for.....

Barry Brisco · #12 Post by **Barry Brisco** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:29 pm

There was a lengthy discussion in June 2008 about installing AC in a 356. See:
http://porsche356registry.org/356talk/t ... ning#p8873

At that time, in response to a post by Jake Raby saying if A/C "could be done to a 356 without ANY CUTTING OR WELDING to the car and they could be reversed in just a matter of a couple weekends worth of effort I think you'd see 356s being driven more often and longer distances. " I wrote:

"I do not think it is possible to install a useful A/C system in a 356 without a significant amount of cutting. If someone wants to post photos of a 356 A/C installation done with NO cutting I sure would like to see it. There was a lengthy discussion sometime last year on A/C on the "old" list. Someone I had never seen on the list before went on and on about a modern system that would fit under the seat. They never provided any useful details about it but promised it was coming "soon" and would basically be a miracle device. I assume they were referring to a Peltier effect type of device (Google it if you don't know what that is, but I suspect you do. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_effect). Well, a year later there is still no sign of such a device that would actually work in a 356. I have a plug-in cooler that uses that technology and it works great. But it maintains an approximately 30 degree temperature differential to ambient in a 2 cubic foot highly insulated container! The interior of a 356 is orders of magnitude larger and offers very little insulation. That type of device won't work in a car. But enough about that. Obviously conventional automobile A/C systems can be made to work in a 356 and were installed by dealers in the 60's and as aftermarket units in later years. But they involve significant mods to the car. "Cutting" is definitely required. And given that the 356 engine was never designed to run A/C, they also require an alternator, 12V conversion, and a lot of additional hardware. That is a major modification."

Jake went on to describe how a modern A/C compressor would require less than 1HP from the engine, and how well it would work if the engine was modified to use modern computer controlled fuel injection. And $15,000 later the happy 356 owner would have a 356 with A/C and fuel injection and 12V and an alternator and lots of new holes in the body and the car would actually be devalued in the eyes of many -- though not all -- potential buyers.

Terry, it's your car, and you can do what you want. It is certainly possible to install A/C in a 356.

Best regards,

Dick Weiss · #13 Post by **Dick Weiss** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:16 am

I was asked about "conditioning" a 356 engine during my earlier years, but after working on an equipped 912, I told the '356-er' I wouldn't work on the car anymore if it was done (not by me)!
The worst thing added to the engine was the York compressor and if you wanted to get a massage during its pumping, you'll feel it--including its 'drag' of power!!!

Dick

Jim Karaba · #14 Post by **Jim Karaba** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:03 am

Yes it can be done. Certain modifications should be made. No you do not have to have an alternator. It does help to have 12 volts. Yes it can cool the car quite well. Here is the set up I made. I had a similar set up in my pre-A outlaw I sold also. It has been on the car for about 4-6 years now. The only cutting to the car was about a 1" X 2" hole in the engine firewall for the bulkhead fitting, a 1/2 " hole in the rear seat luggage shelf for the evaporator drain tube, and 2 1" holes in the side of the engine shelf for the hoses to exit the engine bay. There are a few other small holes for bracket mounts up front for the condenser but that is minor. The evaporator assembly is fully self contained pre-made unit designed for the street rod community. I am hiding it in the aluminum box behind the rear seat backs, which can still be put up to almost totally conceal it at shows. I think most people missed it at sedona in 09. The sanden compressor does not take much horsepower at all to run. The condesor is mounted in the front nose wheel well and has an electric fan for air flow. The only addition to the dash for the setup is a single original style switch to turn the a/c on. When turned on it controls two relays (one for the compressor clutch and the other for the condenser fan) and sends power to the evaporator case. You must set the blower speed at the box in the back seat.
I think people mean well in replying to this type of subject, but unless they actually have tried it how can you say it is impossible or major un-reversable surgery must be done to accomplish it. As long as you are not running a tired 1500 normal there is enough horsepower to run a setup like this.

Jim Karaba · #15 Post by **Jim Karaba** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:27 am

Here are some pics of the setup in the pre-A outlaw I sold. The main difference here is this had a large performance type I VW engine. I also set it up to control the fan speed with a under dash mounted switch but the temp control knob was still on the rear box. Both cars run 134a freon and is easily serviced by anyone with guages. All hoses and fittings are over the counter items as well as the receiver/drier. Making the brackets is probably the hardest part of the install.