Purchase Advice / Assistance

[John Bulmer]

Hi all, I am new to the forum and looking for some advice / guidance. I decided a year ago that a Porsche was required in my garage, and it has taken me that long to narrow down my choice to one of the following: 356 (1963), 356 Notchback or either a 911 or 912 (1965 or 1966). Have found a few on some of the popular websites - eBay, Collector Car Trader, 356 Registry, etc. but was wondering if there are some other sites that members would recommend.

I'm in Medicine Hat, Alberta and the local choices are nil and its not so convenient to check out cars in far flung locations (that's why eBay is a wonderful resource for me). Looking for whatever guidance you can provide, but do have a few specific questions:

Is there a site or reference document that would list production numbers for specific dates or months? I thought it would be rather cool to get a 356 born on the same date as me in February 1963.

Is anyone familar with car # 212654 (1963 coupe in Vancouver BC)? Am going to check it out at the end of June.

And finally, does anyone have any advice or history in regard to the red 61 notchback presently on eBay? Am very interested in that car but seller is not responding to any of my requests.

Sorry for being so long winded, but wanted to try and cover the main points. Car I am looking for would be in daily driver condition as I am not looking for a project car a rust bucket or a show car.

Thanks

jb

[Barry Brisco]

Hi John,

Welcome to 356Talk!

First step before buying a 356: go to this page listing books about the model
http://356registry.org/tech/books.html

PURCHASE AND READ THIS BOOK: Buying, Driving and Enjoying the Porsche 356
Schrager, J., RPM Autobooks

Also, this book is invaluable in helping you when you inspect a car:
The 356 Porsche: A Restorer's Guide to Authenticity
Johnson, B., Beeman Jorgensen, Inc.

Read as much as you can in a variety of books about the 356 model.

NEXT STEP: don't buy any car sight unseen, or just based on photos. Photos can hide a multitude of problems. Obviously, your location makes it difficult to personally inspect most cars. Find someone knowledgeable to inspect a car for you. Here is a list of people who haved volunteered their names (note that they are not "screened" or "officially approved" by the 356 Registry, they just wanted to have their name listed on this web page)
http://www.356registry.org/Tech/inspections.html

It is not very realistic to try to find a car that was built around the same time that you were born. What matters is the condition of the car, particularly the body. Rust is expensive. Mechanicals are also expensive, but usually cheaper to fix than a lot of rust. And rust can be hard to spot. If you buy a car that turns out to need a lot of body repairs, you can quickly find yourself investing more money in the car than what it is worth if you had to suddenly sell it! That is not a good situation to be in unless you have a fat wallet and intend to keep the car for a long time.

It seems you have not decided if a 356, 912, or 911 is right for you. 356Talk is just about that model, but the 912 can be a great car to start out with, cost less than the other two models, and it has a reliable and easy to maintain engine. An early 911 is a very different animal. Very cool, but engine repairs are more costly, some parts may be even harder to find, and it will likely be more costly than a 356B coupe, given two cars in equal condition. But you never know...

Good luck,

Barry Brisco

Hi all, I am new to the forum and looking for some advice / guidance. I decided a year ago that a Porsche was required in my garage, and it has taken me that long to narrow down my choice to one of the following: 356 (1963), 356 Notchback or either a 911 or 912 (1965 or 1966). Have found a few on some of the popular websites - eBay, Collector Car Trader, 356 Registry, etc. but was wondering if there are some other sites that members would recommend.

I'm in Medicine Hat, Alberta and the local choices are nil and its not so convenient to check out cars in far flung locations (that's why eBay is a wonderful resource for me). Looking for whatever guidance you can provide, but do have a few specific questions:

Is there a site or reference document that would list production numbers for specific dates or months? I thought it would be rather cool to get a 356 born on the same date as me in February 1963.

Is anyone familar with car # 212654 (1963 coupe in Vancouver BC)? Am going to check it out at the end of June.

And finally, does anyone have any advice or history in regard to the red 61 notchback presently on eBay? Am very interested in that car but seller is not responding to any of my requests.

Sorry for being so long winded, but wanted to try and cover the main points. Car I am looking for would be in daily driver condition as I am not looking for a project car a rust bucket or a show car.

Thanks

jb

[Michael Eker]

I can offer some advice, before buying, look at a lot of cars at least 10.

Only then can you start to get an idea of value.

356 ownership is now an expensive hobby, and they can turn out to be cash blackholes.

Have you considered running a classic beetle or Karmann Ghia for a while to see whether

you will get used to the experience of driving a 70+ year old engine design in modern

traffic.

I once owned a very early beetle and the experience stood me in good stead for a 356.

In my opinion the 356 has more personality and character than the 911, the 912 is a PMP.

Ask any Porsche owner what a PMP is and he will tell you ( hint: the 924 is too)

The 911 is almost perfect, agile, obedient, fast, but has lost some of the character of the

356. ( the 928 is practically devoid of any character)

A well maintained 356 is a joy to drive and the best car Porsche ever made.

meker

[JOEL JENSEN]

Bye Bye

[Michael Eker]

After the discontinuation of the 356 model in 1965, Porsche was left with the pricey new 911 as their only offering. Fearing that its considerable price increase over the 356 would cost the company sales and narrow the appeal of the brand, a decision was made by executives to introduce a new entry-level model. Built on the 911's chassis and sharing its bodyshell, Porsche was able to offer the 912 for much less than a base-model 911 by using the four-cylinder engine from the 356 rather than the 911's "flat" six-cylinder powerplant and by reducing the number of standard features. The proven reliability of the 356's engine combined with the 911 bodywork and low price made the 912 a very attractive buy to both new and old customers, and it substantially outsold the 911 during the first few years of production: Porsche produced slightly more than 30,000 units during its five-year production run. 912s were also used as police (polizei) cars in Europe, including Targas (Porsche's patented variation of a cabriolet with lift-off folding top, rollbar, and an openable plastic rear window). In April 1967, the Porsche factory's Christophorus magazine noted: "On 21 December, 1966, Porsche celebrated a particularly proud anniversary. The 100,000th Porsche, a 912 Targa outfitted for the police, was delivered."

After updating the 911 line-up to include both a more powerful 911S and a less expensive 911T, Porsche executives began to feel that the 912 had become redundant, that the 911 platform was sufficiently diverse and that pricing had largely come into line with market expectations. Owing to this and the desire to introduce a new model, the 912 was discontinued and superseded as Porsche's entry-level model by the 914 in 1970; a vehicle which Porsche had thought would be less expensive for them to manufacture and sell than the 912.

After a six year absence, the model was re-introduced to North America in 1976 as the 912E to occupy the entry-level position left vacant by the discontinuation of the 914, while the new 924 – the 914's official replacement – was being finalized and put into production.

The 912 got Porsche out of a hole when the 911 wasn't selling well.

As did the 914 and 924 in their turn. "Entry level" is salesman's parlance for PMP

You can still pick up a bargain 912: http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/classifieds/561117.htm

It is quite a while since I saw a "good" 356 for $13,000

meker

[John Bulmer]

Thanks to those who responded, and generally I am following the advice presented. I have given up on the mid 60's 911 for no other reason than it may not be unique enough for me. The notchback, 63 356 or a pre 67 912 are my best choices - each has a unique or quirky characteristic that would suit my personality.

Off to Vancouver BC in a week to check out a 63 to see if it does suit me and my body. Have had problems with older Mercedes in that the my legs wouldn't fit real well between the steering wheel and the seat - made them very tough to drive.

Am sure that this will just be the start of something new and fun for me. Wish that I was a more dedicated / motivated individual or I would be getting a project car to spend time on. But time is one thing i don't have a lot of - most days I don't seem to have enough time to breathe.

Thanks again and am sure I will be talking to you all again, and hopefully meeting some in my journeys down life's highway.

jb

[Guest]

My dad had a 1958 190 SL back when I bought my 356 coupe. I had a heck of a time with his vertical steering wheel just as you seemed to. The 356 is not a problem once I'm in. Just stretching that right leg first is the fun part. I think you'll have the room you're looking for. I'm 6 foot/220lb, so I'm not tiny. Jim Slawson, 62 S90 coupe.

[Jeffrey Fellman]

one of these makes in and out a lot easier see
www.ClassicoWheels.com/BCDerrington
----- Original Message -----
From: "jim slawson" <onthe7thtee@sbcglobal.net>
To: <356talk@356registry.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 3:26 PM
Subject: [356Talk] Purchase Advice / Assistance

My dad had a 1958 190 SL back when I bought my 356 coupe. I had a heck of
a time with his vertical steering wheel just as you seemed to. The 356 is
not a problem once I'm in. Just stretching that right leg first is the
fun part. I think you'll have the room you're looking for. I'm 6
foot/220lb, so I'm not tiny. Jim Slawson, 62 S90 coupe.

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[John Bulmer]

Jeff

That's what I was thinking if I found the next "dream" car wouldn't allow me to drive it cause of the steering wheel. Keep the original for showing, but have another available for driving.

cheers

jb