The Official 356Talk Forum

Recently I bought a '59 T-2 A sunroof coupe to restore. It has two options listed on it's Certificate of Authenticity that I'm having trouble researching. They are 1) Bosch power train control system, and 2) Carrera pedal.

Bill Brock of the Registry emailed me that the Bosch.... included an ammeter and a toggle switch. He wasn't familiar with the C. pedal.

I've called both North Hollywood Speedo. and Palo Alto thinking they might have a handle on the Bosch option, since it may include a gauge, but struck out both places.

The dash has two extra small gauge cutouts, and has an ammeter in one of them. The cutouts appear to have been made by the same technique, but obviously many owners add aftermarket gauges. Unfortunately the previous owner, who bought it in the same condition in California, doesn't know what these options were, either.

One local (Kansas City) 356 addict thinks maybe the car was a rally car from back in the day, because of the 80-liter tank and really old seat belt loops on the back floor. I have no idea.

Any help from the Registry membership would be greatly appreciated. Bob Maxwell

Bob,
I looked at the car and the 80-liter tank is not original to the car. There is no reinforcemnt channel under the trunk floor for the front attachment of the right strap for the big tank and the straps for the original small tank are under the big tank (with their welded-on mounts). In addition, if the big tank were original to the car, it would have a modified steering box access plate.
I have no idea what the other options are.

David, I agree with your observations, but the 80-l tank is on the CoA. The previous owner told me the car had been dis-assembled to be restored, and many items were stolen. I assume that the car had been previously converted to a small tank, explaining the straps and the unmodified access plate. The lack of reinforcing channel is puzzling. The 80-l tank that came with the car is from, I believe, a '58 Carrera, as the original tank was stolen. Thanks for your help. Bob

This might be the Anti-Theft Ignition Cut Off Switch which was located under the dash, and was available as a factory accessory for late 356-A's and 356-B T-5's. This was mentioned in the 356-A Factory Accessory Catalog dated February 1959, and later in the 356-B T-5 Factory Accessory Catalog dated February 1960. Look under the dash for something like what is shown below. The translators of the Kardex information shown on the the CoA often BUTCHERED the translations. But "Bosch" suggests something electrical, and "power train control system" might be the ignition cutoff switch. A rare option seldom seen, but shown in the factory accessory catalogs of the late A's and early B's!

Charlie White
Scottsdale, Arizona

I know this car, I belonged to long time registry member Bob Raucher in the 60's. I actually considered buying it about seven years ago. The carrera pedals refers to the longer clutch pedal the carrera had versus the regular production cars. From the top of my head the pedal was about one inch longer.

I was never able to figure out the Bosch ammeter thing. Looking at the holes in the dash they look a bit crude and you would have expected the factory to do a little nicer job.

Hope this helps,

Joris


Van: bob maxwell [mailto:bobamaxwell@gmail.com]
Verzonden: vr 21-5-2010 3:19
Aan: 356talk@356registry.com
Onderwerp: [356Talk] Rare Options



Recently I bought a '59 T-2 A sunroof coupe to restore. It has two options listed on it's Certificate of Authenticity that I'm having trouble researching. They are 1) Bosch power train control system, and 2) Carrera pedal.

Bill Brock of the Registry emailed me that the Bosch.... included an ammeter and a toggle switch. He wasn't familiar with the C. pedal.

I've called both North Hollywood Speedo. and Palo Alto thinking they might have a handle on the Bosch option, since it may include a gauge, but struck out both places.

The dash has two extra small gauge cutouts, and has an ammeter in one of them. The cutouts appear to have been made by the same technique, but obviously many owners add aftermarket gauges. Unfortunately the previous owner, who bought it in the same condition in California, doesn't know what these options were, either.

One local (Kansas City) 356 addict thinks maybe the car was a rally car from back in the day, because of the 80-liter tank and really old seat belt loops on the back floor. I have no idea.

Any help from the Registry membership would be greatly appreciated. Bob Maxwell




[Image: http://s2.postimage.org/NvjNJ.jpg ] (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsNvjNJ)

[Image: http://s4.postimage.org/c0NzJ.jpg ] (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVc0NzJ)

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Bob Maxwell
'57 T-1.5 Coupe
'59 T-2 S/R Coupe project
'06 Cayman S

Post generated using Mail2Forum via email.

Using logic, not knowledge, because no clock is listed on the CoA, the ammeter was where the clock is and the other two holes were added later, OR it had no extra guages and the switch was the only Bosch option feature. So, how does the quality of the center hole compare to the other two guage holes?

Thanks to everyone who has offered ideas.
I crawled under the dash this afternoon, and found the following:

1) no secret security switch, but a moderate amt. of after-market wiring, including a toggle switch that probably goes to 2 lights up under the dash, one on each side (there's also a similar light in the engine compartment, and there is an extra brown wire that goes into the tunnel, I presume to that light). Of course the security switch could have been removed....???

2) the center clock hole was made differently than the other 2 small holes; its edge appears perfectly round and smooth, while the 2 smaller holes to either side are made with a series of small straight cuts. The ammeter appears to be wired in a non-stock fashion and is dated early 1960's, as is the clock (I already suspected this clock was not stock as it has a second hand, which I think appeared during the 356B era).

Soooooo, I now probably know what the Carrera pedal is, but the jury's still out on the Bosch power train mgmt. thing. Charlie White's thought about a devious translation looms large in my mind. Guess I'd need access to the original cardex in German, plus an appropriate translator. Any other thoughts?

Thanks again to everyone, Bob

Bob,

I have a 1959 A Cabriolet I'm restoring(when I get the time to!). I received my COA from Porsche last year and it has under Optional Equipment: Addtl. Anti-Theft Device Under Instr. Panel. Hope these pictures help, but I don't know it's related to your Bosch item.

Tim

Hi Guys,
I found this anti-theft switch (probably made in Milwaukee) I found
under the dash of a scrapped 356.

A true American-German piece of history.

Couldn't resist......
John

Maybe "Bosch power train control system" is a really bastardized German/English translation for electric sunroof motor & controls, which probably were Bosch, given the reference immedately follows mention of the sunroof.

CW

Digging up an old thread here.

Tim McGuire wrote:I have a 1959 A Cabriolet I'm restoring(when I get the time to!). I received my COA from Porsche last year and it has under Optional Equipment: Addtl. Anti-Theft Device Under Instr. Panel. Hope these pictures help, but I don't know it's related to your Bosch item.

Tim

That's a BOSCH SH/LZ 1/1 pre-A headlight switch pushed into service as an anti-theft device. You can see it has a 4J (Apr 1953) date code on the far right edge of the red plastic cover.

Hard to read, but it is the same as the headlight switch for my '53 coupe, including the position of the date code, which is bit more readable on mine. These switches were used for headlights through early 1954. This Apr '53 switch has a '54 or later knob on it though. =]

If it helps any, 644 .23.025 is the part number for a clutch pedal for a Carrera and 644 .23.026 is the part number for a clutch pedal for a regular 356A.

Bob,You've got suppression for the wipers and a radio listed. It would stand to reason that suppression for the engine i.e. generator/regulator capacitors would be the Bosch system. These would certainly be needed.

Probably a primative Motronic system, either vacuum-tube or electro-mechanical.

I thought I would post the Kardex info I've translated here as on this new Car - 1964 C Cabrio imported to South Africa by a German Factory foreman in 1968 when he moved here - so beside the German/Sweden Heater option, there are a few rare one's I believe

1. hardtop with electric sunroof
2. lower seat cushion base (tall or racey?)
3. torneau (at least that's what I think wind deflector means)

All these still with the car as last owner bought it in 1971 from the German, who said he used the luggage rack for skis
Kardex Restart after 10 year hibernation at a farm Out for the first drive On top of the world