retrofitting ZF box

[Lloyd Keigwin]

Listers,

Anyone experienced putting a ZF steering box in an early 1957 356A? The problem I'm having is to get the box seated and lined up with the steering column, it must rotate downward about the torsion bar tube. In so doing it hits the forward edge of the access compartment, with the wires for lighting on the other side.

I've gone far enough down this path that some metal work is the obvious option. But I hate to gaff it unless there is no alternative. One possibliity might be to remove the top of the box, drain lots of oil, do the rotation and replace the lid. Does anyone know if there will be enough room to reinstall the top of the box?

thanks, Lloyd Keigwin, #25

[E Ray Knight]

I have never done it, but have always understood that you need to bend metal to get it to clear. There is always the option of cutting out clearance area and fabricating a nice tidy access panel. Neither option serve the originality gods well, but a soft area bend/stretch seems less obtrusive to me, is theoretically reversible, and is how I understand others have done it. I decided to stick with early style steering box in all of my cars. Ray Knight 51 coupe, 51 Sauter roadster, 54 coupe

[Guest]

Yes it will fit with some mods. You will also need to use the adjustable
left tie rod, this critical for a proper alignment.

Alan

Lloyd Keigwin wrote:

Listers,

Anyone experienced putting a ZF steering box in an early 1957 356A?
The problem I'm having is to get the box seated and lined up with the
steering column, it must rotate downward about the torsion bar tube.
In so doing it hits the forward edge of the access compartment, with
the wires for lighting on the other side.

I've gone far enough down this path that some metal work is the
obvious option. But I hate to gaff it unless there is no alternative.
One possibliity might be to remove the top of the box, drain lots of
oil, do the rotation and replace the lid. Does anyone know if there
will be enough room to reinstall the top of the box?

thanks, Lloyd Keigwin, #25




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[Mike Smith]

You will have to bend metal - it is not much

Dont forget when fitting the Adjustable Short Tie Rod that one Tie Rod End has a Slight Bend (Set, Kink whatever you want to call it) in it

This end is position NEXT to the Steering Box

[Guest]

Someone must have already changed the rod. the original one was rigid
and no adjustment was possible. It is important to find the center of
the box, there is usually a pointer or a slash mark on the input shaft
of the box. You must align the car and keep the box centered or you will
end up with a bunch of play that cannot be removed.

Alan

Lloyd Keigwin wrote:

Thanks, Alan. Not sure what you mean by adjustable left tie rod.
With the tie rod ends (inner and outer) both adjustable, is something
more needed? Lloyd




On May 18, 2008, at 10:57 PM, Alan wrote:

Yes it will fit with some mods. You will also need to use the
adjustable left tie rod, this critical for a proper alignment.

Alan

Lloyd Keigwin wrote:

Listers,

Anyone experienced putting a ZF steering box in an early 1957 356A?
The problem I'm having is to get the box seated and lined up with
the steering column, it must rotate downward about the torsion bar
tube. In so doing it hits the forward edge of the access
compartment, with the wires for lighting on the other side.

I've gone far enough down this path that some metal work is the
obvious option. But I hate to gaff it unless there is no
alternative. One possibliity might be to remove the top of the box,
drain lots of oil, do the rotation and replace the lid. Does anyone
know if there will be enough room to reinstall the top of the box?

thanks, Lloyd Keigwin, #25

Post generated using Mail2Forum via email.

[Albert Tiedemann]

I have fit a ZF box from a 1964-C into Speedster chassis number 82984. In fact, I fit many of the components from the FActory delivered 12V C into the Speedster [Engine, transmission, brakes, instuments, etc]. My chassis does not have the vertical mounted removeable cover [held on by 4 M6 DIN 933 fasteners]. I found it necessary to install the box in pieces removing two of the studs and pitman arm to gain the needed access. The angular orientation of the box on the tube is fixed by a locating dowel pin. The pitman arm is match marked so you get it back on correctly. With these removed, it goes in like it had eyes and the removed components are easily re-installed even lying on your back. The only "metal cutting" that I found necessary was to file an aperture into the flanged lip of the chassis where the flat top cover plate fits. This aperture is needed to access the fill plug hex for removal of the plug for fluid checking/topping off. Many with leakers fill it with grease--no more leaks and it works. Saves a lot of work and not even the concours Police will suspect because I have never observed their checking the box for "proper lubricant contents".

Of course, only proper lubricants in mine as it was resealed; AND you would not want the pot called black by the kettle. If you know someone in the power company that does service work, you may be able to pry one of the little lead seals off same. The wire is easily fashion and it is so dark in there no one would be able to discern the number of strans and the lay. If you are really anal, you can get the red and yellow "tamper teltale" paint for the fasteners. I know a person that documented such details in preparation for the 50th Porsche Parade

[Albert Tiedemann]

I have fit a ZF box from a 1964-C into Speedster chassis number 82984. In fact, I fit many of the components from the Factory delivered 12V C into the Speedster [Engine, transmission, brakes, instuments, etc]. My chassis does not have the vertical mounted removeable cover [held on by 4 M6 DIN 933 fasteners]. I found it necessary to install the box in pieces removing two of the studs and pitman arm to gain the needed access. The angular orientation of the box on the tube is fixed by a locating dowel pin. The pitman arm is match marked so you get it back on correctly. With these removed, it goes in like it had eyes and the removed components are easily re-installed even lying on your back. The only "metal cutting" that I found necessary was to file an aperture into the flanged lip of the chassis where the flat top cover plate fits. This aperture is needed to access the fill plug hex for removal of the plug for fluid checking/topping off. Many with leakers fill it with grease--no more leaks and it works. Saves a lot of work and not even the concours Police will suspect because I have never observed their checking the box for "proper lubricant contents".

Of course, only proper lubricants in mine as it was resealed; AND you would not want the pot called black by the kettle. If you know someone in the power company that does service work, you may be able to pry one of the little lead seals off same. The wire is easily fashion and it is so dark in there no one would be able to discern the number of strans and the lay. If you are really anal, you can get the red and yellow "tamper teltale" paint for the fasteners. I know a person that documented such details in preparation for the 50th Porsche Parade

[Fred Otjen]

Just finished putting a ZF in my ‘57 A. Only modification was to slightly enlarge locating hole and bending the seam in the battery box front wall where that pocket is. Installed new tie rods and ends and steering coupler, completed front end alignment. Somehow the horn contact broke inside the column so new one on order.

[John Brooks]

While its apart I would call Ron at PreMat and get one of his new steering couplers and put it in at the same time.

[Al Zim]

Posted twice

[Al Zim]

My 1957 coupe is up in the air for new tires today. Sometime in the late 80's I put a ZF in the car. Remember 30 years ago when I did this it comes to mind that I had to move the pitman arm to the limit of one side so it would clear the lower torsion bar tube and I folded the top edge of the cover forward (that later became removable) to clear the edge of the steering box. It is a tight fit. It has been 33 years and not a lot of miles but the coupler looks like new. Use the VW one like Porsche did till the 356C model. I have my steering shock mounted to the lower torsion bar tube. If your steering box feel rough while turning we can reset the worm and sector. No parts are available for restoration.

[John Hearn]

Quote al zim, " No parts are available for restoration."
How about this.........
https://www.prs356.co.uk/porsche-356-pa ... ering-box/
Quote al zim "And no metal needs to be deformed or cut..... and then he states "I folded the top edge of the cover forward (that later became removable) to clear the edge of the steering box."
Is that not metal deformation.......
KTF
John

[tony apcar]

Al Zim is 79 have some respect.....

[Al Zim]

John Hearn: Yesterday I tried to correct two errors in my comments on installing a ZF steering gear box. Unfortunately my computer skills are lacking. *** Regarding the ability to purchase a new pin to fit the worm gear in the ZF steering gear box, I was unaware that this was possible. Aaron shop & parts manager has told me in no uncertain words that the pin will not work with the spiral gear they sell. BUT if you do not have or do not have the ability to repair the worm gear that attaches to the steering column the purchase of this part alone will not alleviate your steering problems.*** Now for the best part. Zim's can repair the pin BUT ONLY when we redo the steering box.

Mr. Apcar: You advertised front suspension parts that met new specifications for the front end of the 356. I agreed to pay you for shipping the parts to Zim's and I DID pay you for the parts that met specifications using the Porsche (.002 inches.) 1 part of 4 and we paid you to ship the bad parts back to you. What you and others have taught me is that unless you have the 3 measuring tools ( which I do not think any individuals have) the parts that you are selling are our of specifications.
IT IS UNFORTUNATE THAT MANY PEOPLE THAT PROFESS A KNOWLEDGE OF THE INTRACIES OF THE 356 DO NOT REALIZE WHT 55 YEARS OF WEAR CAN DO TO METAL PARTS. Al Zim

[Martin Benade]

I think the note to mr Apcar would have made a nice email directly to him.