The Official 356Talk Forum

Has everyone installed a Gene Berg VW 5-SPEED transmission in a 356?

Alan

I see two issues.

The normal question of: Can you install a VW transaxle in a 356.

The second has to do with the Berg 5 being longer than a VW transaxle and uses a special Berg front mount/cross member.

VW left, Berg right


Berg front mount / cross member

VW trans' 1st gear ratio is very low, and fitting to 356 is onerous. Of course, butchery is always an option. At our shop we spend endless hours correcting these "great ideas". Others on this list advocate converting these cars to Porsche bodied VW's. I am not one of them. Tall splits are available from Carquip and others if you feel the need, negating the need for 5 speeds. Enough shifting and you will feel like you ROWED the car there.

Glen

2 issues? Your points are well taken, but there are an infinite number of issues! The whole rear of the car will have to be redesigned to accept the IRS transaxle. It would be easier and cheaper to install a good, used or rebuilt 911/912 transaxle. This job is not for the "light of wallet" or all of us weekend tinkerers, Mike Moss, Ron LaDow, Larry Chmurra and and a few others, excepted.

Regards

Jim Breazeale wrote:Glen

The whole rear of the car will have to be redesigned to accept the IRS transaxle.

Regards

Jim,

My car is IRS, but you could build a Berg 5 for swingaxle also.

Jack Staggs wrote:VW trans' 1st gear ratio is very low,

There are plenty of VW 1st gear ratios to pick from. What final drive are you looking for?

As for the gear ratios there are several available. COST$$$$ if you want a special 1st and second gear ratios,
another issue is the hockey stick location (porsche vs VW)
and as for swing axle that is possible, one thing to look at is the stock mount angle (is it the same as porsche?)
if your interested we build them to your application.

Anthony Merjano wrote:As for the gear ratios there are several available. COST$$$$ if you want a special 1st and second gear ratios,
another issue is the hockey stick location (porsche vs VW)
and as for swing axle that is possible, one thing to look at is the stock mount angle (is it the same as porsche?)
if your interested we build them to your application.

Bottom line is, it is still a VW transaxle and simply does not fit into a 356 without extensive, irreversable modifications to the 356 chassis. It may be better (I don't think so, but I will give the VW crowd their props) but any attempt to use a non Porsche trans will be akin to shooting one's self in the foot. Why bother? 356 transes are plentiful and realtively inexpensive.

Regards

Jim Breazeale wrote:

Anthony Merjano wrote:As for the gear ratios there are several available. COST$$$$ if you want a special 1st and second gear ratios,
another issue is the hockey stick location (porsche vs VW)
and as for swing axle that is possible, one thing to look at is the stock mount angle (is it the same as porsche?)
if your interested we build them to your application.

Bottom line is, it is still a VW transaxle and simply does not fit into a 356 without extensive, irreversable modifications to the 356 chassis. It may be better (I don't think so, but I will give the VW crowd their props) but any attempt to use a non Porsche trans will be akin to shooting one's self in the foot. Why bother? 356 transes are plentiful and realtively inexpensive.

Regards

I agree....

dropping a VW engine in is a simple task that requires no body mods and can buy you time till you get a 356 powerplant.

But the tranny is a one way street which will cost you more in the long run.

Anthony Merjano wrote:As for the gear ratios there are several available. COST$$$$ if you want a special 1st and second gear ratios,

Hmmm, I wouldn't have thought people on this board to be frugal.

You might be surprised at how many of us (yes, I'm one) own/drive 356 cars who aren't "in the money". I purchased my first 356, in 1969, fresh out of college, because I wanted a sports car that was fun to drive, didn't break something every week (Sorry to all my buddies who drove British.), and was economical. I still value those traits, because I've never made a bundle as a self-employed artist/craftsman. It's great that a lot of you (maybe most) who are into 356s are able to indulge your interests without having to consider $$$ or cents (I'd love to do some things to my car, like repair to original body damage that wasn't fixed correctly, but it's not in the cards right now. Maybe when I start drawing my big Social Security check! )

Jim Breazeale wrote:Glen

2 issues? Your points are well taken, but there are an infinite number of issues! The whole rear of the car will have to be redesigned to accept the IRS transaxle. It would be easier and cheaper to install a good, used or rebuilt 911/912 transaxle. This job is not for the "light of wallet" or all of us weekend tinkerers, Mike Moss, Ron LaDow, Larry Chmurra and and a few others, excepted.

Regards

We have put a complete 911 drivetrain in a 356, and have put 911 trans and suspension in a 356. I was wondering if you could explain how it would be easier to install a 911/912 transaxle than a swing axle Berg unit. I suppose you could convert a 911/912 unit to swing axle, but is it easier?

David Ramatowski wrote:

Jim Breazeale wrote:Glen

2 issues? Your points are well taken, but there are an infinite number of issues! The whole rear of the car will have to be redesigned to accept the IRS transaxle. It would be easier and cheaper to install a good, used or rebuilt 911/912 transaxle. This job is not for the "light of wallet" or all of us weekend tinkerers, Mike Moss, Ron LaDow, Larry Chmurra and and a few others, excepted.

Regards

We have put a complete 911 drivetrain in a 356, and have put 911 trans and suspension in a 356. I was wondering if you could explain how it would be easier to install a 911/912 transaxle than a swing axle Berg unit.

David

Go back and carefully read my post and the original question. My response had nothing to do with a "swing axle" transaxle. We were comparing a "IRS" VW unit with a almuninum case 901 style transaxle. Neither installation is simple, as you well know.

Note: Arguing with a Parts Man/Auto Wrecker is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. After a while you realize the pig enjoys it!

Regards

Not arguing, just wondering how it's easier. 6 of one, half dozen of the other. Personally, I feel it is kinda silly. I like the way 356s drive as they are!