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 Post subject: Terminology question: bumper guards, overriders, bars...
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:56 am 
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I am a proponent of using consistent terminology, so that, for example, when you are discussing a particular part and you use a word to describe that part, the person you are talking to understands what you are talking about.

Recently it was brought to my attention that there may be a difference between the VW and 356 communities (which of course are not "separate" entities, they overlap quite a bit) in the terms used for some bumper trim parts.

The paired vertical aluminum pieces that in Brett Johnson's book are called "bumper guards", which first appeared on some 1952 356s and that continued in various forms until the end of 356 production, may be called "overriders" in the vintage VW world. Is that true?

The "overrider" bars, the horizontal bar front and rear chromed steel tubes that passes through notches in the bumper guards, first appeared in mid 1956 on 356s destined for export to the USA. On VWs of the same era they are called "towel bars". Is that the common usage in the VW community?

This all came to light in a recent discussion I was having with a vintage VW and 356 enthusiast, and I was getting confused because when he said "overrider" I thought "bumper guard". But to him a "bumper guard" was what I thought of as an "overrider".

What do the various 356 parts manuals call the paired vertical pieces on the bumpers and the horizontal bar?

Below is a photo showing what I believe are the common terms for those 356 bumper trim parts, and below that a photo of a 60's VW.

Thanks,

Barry

Image

Image

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Barry Brisco
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 Post subject: Terminology question: bumper guards, overriders, bars...
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:10 am 
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I think they may be called different things depending on what part of the country you're located.

When I was into VWs back in the 70s - 80s, they were called bumper guards and overriders, just like on the 356 (as labeled in your 356 photo).

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 Post subject: overrider
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:04 pm 
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The 1955 356 parts manual clearly refers to the vertical upright "bumper guards"(without tubes) as overiders. Page 251 Items 17 and 18 part numbers 644.505.031.00 and .032.00 respectivly for right and left front or rear etc. Fit coupes from 52 030 and conv. 60 550 on. Thats Why I called them that in my classified add. And yes towel bar is a slang term I use. Brett's book is an awesome reference, but is not the gospel. I don't really see waht the big deal is on this. It's kind like the "I say Potato you say pototo" thing. Just a side note, I have owned many different models of Porsches and VW's (and still do) for over 20 years and don't see why people on this board have to make such a big differential the two "communities".

Just my two pennies, (I gotta get off this computer and go work on my car) LOL.

Mark O.


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 Post subject: Re: overrider
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:27 pm 
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Matt, thank you for posting that information from the 1955 356 parts manual, which I do not own a copy of. Can those who own 356A and 356B parts manuals check to see what term is used for the upright bumper guards?

I was very careful in my post not to give the impression that 356 and VW fans are two completely different groups of people, nor do I think that "people on this board have to make such a big differential" between them. I wrote that they "are not 'separate' entities, they overlap quite a bit".

And I had no intention of making this terminology question a "big deal". But your analogy to two different ways to pronounce the word "potato" is inaccurate. "Bumper guard" is not the same word as "overrider", and they way those two words are used among 356 enthusiasts is quite different.

My only goal here is clear communication, not criticism. If someone posts an ad saying they want to "trade my overriders for the correct ones", 356ers reading that ad are very likely to think the part in question is a bumper guard, not an overrider tube, even though apparently that was not the intended meaning of the ad.

I find that Brett Johnson's book is a very good reference for terminology that is in general use. I would not refer to it as "gospel", since there are always other slang terms that are sometimes used.

Best regards,

Barry

Mark Odenwald wrote:
The 1955 356 parts manual clearly refers to the vertical upright "bumper guards"(without tubes) as overiders. Page 251 Items 17 and 18 part numbers 644.505.031.00 and .032.00 respectivly for right and left front or rear etc. Fit coupes from 52 030 and conv. 60 550 on. Thats Why I called them that in my classified add. And yes towel bar is a slang term I use. Brett's book is an awesome reference, but is not the gospel. I don't really see waht the big deal is on this. It's kind like the "I say Potato you say pototo" thing. Just a side note, I have owned many different models of Porsches and VW's (and still do) for over 20 years and don't see why people on this board have to make such a big differential the two "communities".

Just my two pennies, (I gotta get off this computer and go work on my car) LOL.

Mark O.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:36 pm 
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I am possibly going out on a limb here. Great fear of being kicked out of the club, BUT I'll make a reference to 912/911. These have BUMPER GUARDS, which have the same function as the bumper guards on a 356 (CONTENT!)

IMO

Bumper guards are the uprights. Every 356 (except Pre A and carreras?) has them

Overriders are the horizonal tubes, US delivery or special order only.

If someone tells me their B/C has overriders I would be puzzled.

Nontheless - I have seen Marks car - it is SWEET!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:53 pm 
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In the past 40 years I have had no trouble with customers understanding what I meant when I say

a BUMPER GUARD
or a PROTECTION TUBE

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 Post subject: Terminology question: bumper guards, overriders, bars...
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:48 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:13 am
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Back "in the day," General Motors, Ford and Chrysler cars all had
bumper guards (sometimes called "bumperets") which were vertical
appendages to the main horizontal bumper. Even so, as massive as
these were, these appendages (could) have additional appendages that
were called "accessories" available at extra cost.

When the tiny European sports cars arrived on the scene, their bumpers
& guards were not as sturdy and did not conform to the height of their
massive American counterparts. Therefore, after many insurance claims
from owners of the smaller sports cars the U.S. government and the
automobile insurance industry said to all small car manufacturers "
thou shalt raise the height of your defensive device at the front and
rear of your vehicles, or be forever banned from entering this Kingdom."

So, with infinite "European logic" rather than retool their car
bodies, most imports added the "Override bar."

Therefore with Porsche, they first came up with a "low" override bar,
then later the "high" override bar. Finally, in 1960 Porsche unveiled
the "B" model that came equipped with bumpers and bumper guards that
met U.S. regulations - end of story.

I just wonder how far this thread will take us and how anal can we get?

Tom Kayser #16013
`59 Cabriolet 151512


On Aug 12, 2009, at 12:27 PM, Barry Brisco wrote:

Quote:
Matt, thank you for posting that information from the 1955 356
parts manual, which I do not own a copy of. Can those who own 356A
and 356B parts manuals check to see what term is used for the
upright bumper guards?

I was very careful in my post not to give the impression that 356
and VW fans are two completely different groups of people, nor do I
think that "people on this board have to make such a big
differential" between them. I wrote that they "are not 'separate'
entities, they overlap quite a bit".

And I had no intention of making this terminology question a "big
deal". But your analogy to two different ways to pronounce the word
"potato" is inaccurate. "Bumper guard" is not the same word as
"overrider", and they way those two words are used among 356
enthusiasts is quite different.

My only goal here is clear communication, not criticism. If someone
posts an ad saying they want to "trade my overriders for the correct
ones", 356ers reading that ad are very likely to think the part in
question is a bumper guard, not an overrider tube, even though
apparently that was not the intended meaning of the ad.

I find that Brett Johnson's book is a very good reference for
terminology that is in general use. I would not refer to it as
"gospel", since there are always other slang terms that are
sometimes used.

Best regards,

Barry


Mark Odenwald wrote:
Quote:
The 1955 356 parts manual clearly refers to the vertical upright
"bumper guards"(without tubes) as overiders. Page 251 Items 17 and
18 part numbers 644.505.031.00 and .032.00 respectivly for right
and left front or rear etc. Fit coupes from 52 030 and conv. 60
550 on. Thats Why I called them that in my classified add. And
yes towel bar is a slang term I use. Brett's book is an awesome
reference, but is not the gospel. I don't really see waht the big
deal is on this. It's kind like the "I say Potato you say pototo"
thing. Just a side note, I have owned many different models of
Porsches and VW's (and still do) for over 20 years and don't see
why people on this board have to make such a big differential the
two "communities".

Just my two pennies, (I gotta get off this computer and go work on
my car) LOL.

Mark O.









Post generated using Mail2Forum via email.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:45 am 
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What's in a word?

Tom's reply somewhat touches on my learned colloquial bumper component names.

If the "bumper" is horizontal and broad, across the width of the car, any car (I didn't gain my early car experience with 356s until 1965, so this is a universal statement), any vertical addition or protrusion was called, in the diminutive, a "bumperette."

The insurance writers called them that, so it wasn't just the repairers or "car guys."

Then, the colloquialism for the 356 additions on the A models that I became exposed to was "overrider tubes." Those tubes were interconnected to the "overriders," AKA "bumperettes." Obviously, a B/C only had "bumperettes."

We gave little consideration to what the translation was in the parts or shop manual.... we knew what we meant. The slang was conversational. Anything else more technical was a part number.

We kept things simple on A cars by discarding as many of those ugly cross tubes as we could justify, sometimes getting as simple as to replace a "bumper" or "crash bar" with "nerf bars," named after an intentional bump or crash in unsophisticated racing, a "nerf."

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:02 pm 
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Barry:

For what it is worth....

The 356A Parts Manual says:

The horizontal bar is a "protection tube"

The verticals are "overriders"

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:10 pm 
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Gary, thanks! That really surprises me. I don't know any 356ers who call the vertical guards "overriders".

Just goes to show that the VW guys can always teach us something.

I would like to apologize to Mark Odenwald for ever doubting him!

Best regards,

Barry

Gary Swauger wrote:
Barry:

For what it is worth....

The 356A Parts Manual says:

The horizontal bar is a "protection tube"

The verticals are "overriders"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:28 pm 
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Back in the mid-1970s, I started calling them overrider tubes and the uprights guards, because everybody immediately knew what you meant. Guards, bumperettes and overriders all basically mean the same thing as has already been pointed out. Overrider is the only one that confused anybody. That is the way they still appear in my books.

I also called the bumper that was fitted to early cars that was not the one mounted flush to the body, but before the classical bumper fitted 1953 - 1959 (commonly called A bumpers) as "interim bumpers" and this has stuck pretty well. Well, that wasn't really the best description, since they were actually made specifically for US destined cars built from mid-1951 through the end of the 1952 model year. For the past couple of decades, I've called them "export bumpers", but nobody seems to like that name.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:06 pm 
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The horizontal bars under discussion have always been protection tubes in the world of Porsche.

But .....this is coming from a guy who up until about the age of 30 and many years of the Porsche experience had NEVER heard terms like "Pre-A", "notch-back", "my D" a problem with my "Dizzy"? or could it be the "Genny"?....all Newbie Corruption

OK, OK I am going out to drive one of my Pre-911's and I will be alright (but wait...just what car would that be?)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:07 pm 
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Thanks for the apology Barry,no offense taken. When I placed the add I was simply quoting the term from my copy of the 1955 parts manual. I also want to apologize for going off on the VW vs. Porsche thing. I had just finished reading a thread which was debating the difference in restoration costs between VW's and Porsches and was a little wound up (but that's a whole other thread and I don't even want to go there). I have a great passion for, and own several of each make, so to me they are all treated with the same respect.

Hope to meet you at the WCH

Peace,

Mark O.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 7:31 pm 
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In my VW microbus parts catalog (for split-windshield buses), the "towel bar" is called a "Bow -- Bumper" if it's on the front and "Bow, rear, left/right" if it's on the rear.

The uprights are called "Overrider -- Bumper" for the front and "Overider, rear, left/right" for the rear.

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