Which Sebring?
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- 356 Fan
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Which Sebring?
So, I am planning to fit a sebring exhaust to my 1960 B.
Anyone have experience of the different makes? I know Vintage Speed, CSP, Turbo Thomas and Karmann Konnection make them. Which one is best in peoples opinion?
Anyone have experience of the different makes? I know Vintage Speed, CSP, Turbo Thomas and Karmann Konnection make them. Which one is best in peoples opinion?
- Neil Bardsley
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Re: Which Sebring?
I suggest you call PRS and ask them which one they use. As they had fitted a few. Plus if change to a sebring exhaust you may find yourself retuning the carbs and losing a few horses?
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Re: Which Sebring?
PRS are working on my car now so I will ask. Why would I need returning and losing some power Neil?
- Neil Bardsley
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Re: Which Sebring?
Reading these forums it would appear that the sebring sounds great but makes slightly less power than a stock exhaust. Wilhoit has quite a good doc on this web site which tests quite a few configurations.david pettengell wrote:PRS are working on my car now so I will ask. Why would I need returning and losing some power Neil?
I'm guessing that because of different back pressure you might have to play with the mixture a little? However, I could be completely wrong on this front.
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Re: Which Sebring?
I would contact James Constas. Hand made and just beautiful. As he explained to me, "The exhaust are made of 16 gauge mild steel then coated inside and out in high temperature ceramic, the reason I use the ceramic coating is better gas flow plus and lower header temps which results in more HP and the finish will stay the same while stainless will turn a dry yellow. The ceramic is a product developed for aero space and used in many motor sports."
He takes about 4-5 weeks but it seemed quicker and is easy to respond and work with. Good price for what you get.
Here's his photo page:
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP ... VXdy1qTU5n
Here's some shots of the one he made for me back in October.
He takes about 4-5 weeks but it seemed quicker and is easy to respond and work with. Good price for what you get.
Here's his photo page:
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP ... VXdy1qTU5n
Here's some shots of the one he made for me back in October.
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- 356 Fan
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Re: Which Sebring?
That is stunning, can I ask a ballpark cost?
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Re: Which Sebring?
Hello David, as an alternative the the James Constas exhaust you might consider the Sebring by Turbo Thomas in the UK.
TurboThomas is a small company, hand making exhausts and has been commended a number of times over on DDK.
http://www.ttexhausts.com/porsche-356-exhaust/
TurboThomas is a small company, hand making exhausts and has been commended a number of times over on DDK.
http://www.ttexhausts.com/porsche-356-exhaust/
- C J Murray
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Re: Which Sebring?
Hello David. I just looked at the TurboThomas kit and they look nice and fairly priced. Are they close enough to visit so that you can see their work in person?
The TT parts look to be stainless and I generally prefer stainless to mild steel for a couple of reasons. On the 356 the exhaust is visible and paint does not hold up well and the original color paints seem to not last long at all. When I have a mild steel muffler I media blast it clean and us motorcycle expansion chamber paint which holds up fairly well but is black. At least it is not rusty and I don't have to repaint my muffler every year.
Ceramic is very costly but done correctly does hold up. I'm not sure how completely they can treat the inside of an exhaust and any part of mild steel exposed will be subject to corrosion. If ceramic is chipped, dented, or stained(oil leak) it can't be repaired easily.
Any mild steel exhaust is prone to cracking and holes. Porsche used very thick wall pipes and thick, sturdy construction throughout. That is why they are so damn heavy and maybe why modern versions don't seem to hold up as well as the originals.
Stainless is much less prone to cracking and corrosion and can be made lighter and still hold up well. It doesn't need paint but it does turn color in different shades depending on the amount of heat it sees. If you don't like the color you can paint stainless.
I have never had a Sebring exhaust so others must advise on noise and performance issues. I would prefer the TT Sport muffler in stainless which is like the GDP stainless muffler that I have on my 2133cc 63 coupe. On sale I paid only around $550 for that. Total bargain!
The TT parts look to be stainless and I generally prefer stainless to mild steel for a couple of reasons. On the 356 the exhaust is visible and paint does not hold up well and the original color paints seem to not last long at all. When I have a mild steel muffler I media blast it clean and us motorcycle expansion chamber paint which holds up fairly well but is black. At least it is not rusty and I don't have to repaint my muffler every year.
Ceramic is very costly but done correctly does hold up. I'm not sure how completely they can treat the inside of an exhaust and any part of mild steel exposed will be subject to corrosion. If ceramic is chipped, dented, or stained(oil leak) it can't be repaired easily.
Any mild steel exhaust is prone to cracking and holes. Porsche used very thick wall pipes and thick, sturdy construction throughout. That is why they are so damn heavy and maybe why modern versions don't seem to hold up as well as the originals.
Stainless is much less prone to cracking and corrosion and can be made lighter and still hold up well. It doesn't need paint but it does turn color in different shades depending on the amount of heat it sees. If you don't like the color you can paint stainless.
I have never had a Sebring exhaust so others must advise on noise and performance issues. I would prefer the TT Sport muffler in stainless which is like the GDP stainless muffler that I have on my 2133cc 63 coupe. On sale I paid only around $550 for that. Total bargain!
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Re: Which Sebring?
Price-wise Constas is on par with the stainless UK Sebrings just a couple hundred dollars more. I do like the TT version and also the Karmann Konnection version looks really nice. I considered those as well. The construction on both of those look nice and I'm generally a SS exhaust fan. I can attest to the thickness of the Constas Sebring though. It's pretty thick actually, I'd say as thick as stock Leistritz
Would love to see some data between the different versions and compared to the data Willhoit did. I don't think anyone's done data on all the different Sebring's yet. Have they?
Would love to see some data between the different versions and compared to the data Willhoit did. I don't think anyone's done data on all the different Sebring's yet. Have they?
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Re: Which Sebring?
Thanks Cliff, I know Turbo Thomas well. He is making my van custom exhaust. Which GDP muffler did you buy?
- C J Murray
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Re: Which Sebring?
This is the one I bought.
http://usstore.concept1.ca/Porsche-356- ... WIN-62911/
http://usstore.concept1.ca/Porsche-356- ... WIN-62911/
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- Martin Benade
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Re: Which Sebring?
CJ does it work better than the OE design muffler? Is it quiet?
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- C J Murray
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Re: Which Sebring?
Hi Martin. I haven't dynoed it but it did not upset the jetting from the stock muffler and the running feels the same. The sound is not loud.
The stock muffler is a complex and well designed item but good ones aren't available. I doubt that any of the aftermarket mufflers have much inside which is why they are so light. It's a bad situation so I bought the GDP since Jeff Leeds was happy with his and they are so cheap. They are very nicely made and have the look of an aftermarket motorcycle exhaust that has to look good because it is exposed.
The stock muffler is a complex and well designed item but good ones aren't available. I doubt that any of the aftermarket mufflers have much inside which is why they are so light. It's a bad situation so I bought the GDP since Jeff Leeds was happy with his and they are so cheap. They are very nicely made and have the look of an aftermarket motorcycle exhaust that has to look good because it is exposed.
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Re: Which Sebring?
So, I went to collect my car from PRS this morning and Paul was around so I asked what Sebrings they fit and he said they don't, as they generally lose power. So I guess my question is - Will I be giving up significant power for the aesthetics of a sebring exhaust? If so, which is the best of a bad bunch? LOL
- C J Murray
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Re: Which Sebring?
I'm not surprised.david pettengell wrote:said they don't, as they generally lose power.
How is it running now?
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