Restoration of Euro Heater System?

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TimDevetski
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Restoration of Euro Heater System?

#1 Post by TimDevetski » Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:08 pm

My T6B is in pretty good shape. Only painted once, no obvious dings or dents, just some scratches and minor stuff. It retains its original interior, which is pretty tired, however. It was a euro delivery car, and so it has the heavy duty heating system. The car was located in Wisconsin for many years and has a little rust underneath. In fact there is a little “rust through” over one of the rear wheel wells. The big euro heat exchangers also have some rust through, and have been disconnected/plugged. The engine also leaks a little oil.

I was thinking about having someone try to restore the Euro heater system and address the oil leaks. I’ve had a very well known 356 restorer look at the car, who thought I should either leave it alone or do a complete restoration of the car. (He did a beautiful job rebuilding the trans and axle tubes.). I’m sure that is good advice, but I would like the heating system to work and I don’t want to do a complete restoration. I like the patina or whatever, and also like that I don’t have to worry too much about screwing the car up (but I am still very protective).

If I were to try to get someone to restore just the heater system (getting it working again) and eliminate engine oil leaks to the extent possible, any suggestions who i should ask to do the work? Please contact me by private message. I assume we would need to source some heat exchangers (which I know is expensive) or do some metal work on mine, if that is possible.

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Ron LaDow
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Re: Restoration of Euro Heater System?

#2 Post by Ron LaDow » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:59 am

Tim,
Most all restorations begin with "I'll just fix this..."
Good luck finding someone who will 'just do this', since if they do 'this', there's a good chance they get blamed for 'that' a bit later.
Ron LaDow
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Dan Kalinski
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Re: Restoration of Euro Heater System?

#3 Post by Dan Kalinski » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:30 pm

If going through the hassle of removing the existing heater boxes to fix, you may be money ahead with purchasing new boxes and have them work perfectly. Tried to justify the same as you suggest now with used euro heater boxes, but, the cost to restore (with no warranty) of being perfect, was expensive.

What shape is the muffler in? While you are at it, is it time to replace that as well?

Have a handle on where the oil leaks are coming from? Suggest you install the milled aluminum sump plate from Ron and perhaps his pushrod tubes along with the super-duper valve cover gaskets from Vic. Have not had to use the push rod tubes but can tell you installing the other two items made one heck of a difference on the '59A.
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jim nelson
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Re: Restoration of Euro Heater System?

#4 Post by jim nelson » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:37 pm

+1 on what Dan says. Euro heater=totally worth it. Only drawback is the variety of exhausts available. You can still find a good Leisritz if you look hard enough.

TimDevetski
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Re: Restoration of Euro Heater System?

#5 Post by TimDevetski » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:56 pm

I’ll put some photos together when I am back together with the car in a couple of weeks — on the road now. I’m not sure what Ron meant by his comment. I have assumed that work on the heating system/exhaust may lead to engine work and that this is the right time to address oil leaks. I just didn’t want to take the work as far as paint/body/interior.

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Al Zim
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Re: Restoration of Euro Heater System?

#6 Post by Al Zim » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:34 pm

Your only real solution is replacing the complete heater system with the American ( rest of world) system. It will be expensive to find European heater parts and they will all be very old! Everything is a bolt up swap. I can still remember before I became a Texan that Ohio winters were cold and I drove a VW with a Porsche normal engine in it. The car was always toasty even though the interior was much larger than the 356.
Like the oil filter, the screen and magnet on the sump will not do anything to trap particles in the oil. Unless you have a full flow filter,. frequent oil changes are your only answer. See your owners manual for frequency. Lube the link pins at the same time. Removing the oil filter blocks the flow past the oil temperature gauge which may be disconcerting. None of the air cooled VW'S had a temperature gauge. I do not have a recommendation to resolve that situation. To stop the oil leaks purchase a new sump plate which should be available from all the major suppliers. Do not install your screen or the magnet! Torque your 6mm nuts to 12 Ft. Lbs and the sump plate will not distort. The factory made a steel sump plate to protect the engine if it should bottom out. A steel sump plate will bend and aluminum one will crack and you will only have seconds to shut down after the green light comes on. al zim
 

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Re: Restoration of Euro Heater System?

#7 Post by Erik Thomas » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:34 pm

There was a great write up in the Registry magazine a while back on the Euro exhaust system and its fettling. They always seemed heavy and cumbersome to me, so my preference would be to carefully remove it and its entrails and store it on a shelf. I like the alloy sump covers, however there is no reason you cannot restore the one you have to flatness. That part about hitting a rock and it cracking might be true if you are planning a trip on the Alcan highway or Peking to Paris rally. For normal suburban driving, no worry. When is the last time you encountered a large rock in the road?

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Ron LaDow
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Re: Restoration of Euro Heater System?

#8 Post by Ron LaDow » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:49 pm

"A steel sump plate will bend and aluminum one will crack and you will only have seconds to shut down after the green light comes on."

Ya know, Al, if you had ONE example of this ever happening I wouldn't resent you bad-mouthing my product.
You don't. It has never happened, so I do resent your BS.
Please shut up when you have nothing but BS to offer; you will look less the fool.
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ScottBerry
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Re: Restoration of Euro Heater System?

#9 Post by ScottBerry » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:49 pm

Al,can you educate me on why the magnet and screen should not be kept in for regular use? Does it do Little in terms of protection and only increases likelihood of a leak at the sump due to poor sealing when bolted and sandwiched back?
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Erik Thomas
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Re: Restoration of Euro Heater System?

#10 Post by Erik Thomas » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:09 am

No, leave the magnet and the screen where they are. They are there for a good reason. When all else fails, turn off the internet and look at the factory overhaul manual, parts book, Etc.

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Al Zim
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Re: Restoration of Euro Heater System?

#11 Post by Al Zim » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:40 am

Ask yourself how small are the particles in the engine as it wears out. My thoughts is that they are extremely small. The screen is not going to catch these particles they are toooooo small. The magnet is not going to catch bearing material since it is not magnetic. Without a full flow filter that can catch material in the micron size all the rest of the devices are just fluff to sell the product. If you catch material on the screen and fuzz on the magnet time for a expensive engine rebuild. I thought the filter was an excellent device when I was younger but as the talk approached this topic the consensus is that less than 5% of the oil flows through the filter at any given time. al zim
 

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Re: Restoration of Euro Heater System?

#12 Post by Erik Thomas » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:32 am

Al:

To my way of thinking, the stuff that comes off camshaft, lifter and other wear areas is worth catching. Of course, if a full flow filter is fitted, no need for screens or magnets. I agree the bypass filter is not very good.

On a standard car with no modern full flow oil filter - leave the screens and magnets in place.

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Ron LaDow
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Re: Restoration of Euro Heater System?

#13 Post by Ron LaDow » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:30 pm

Erik,
I would not remove the screen or the magnet, even though they have little to do with protecting the bearings. They do protect the oil pump and the timing cover (with the serial number, if your car is original). Any full-flow protection happens after that.
By actual test (it was in the Registry some years back) we found that ~7% of the oil passes through the stock filter, meaning ~93% of the unfiltered oil gets 'filtered' by your bearings.
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Dick Weiss
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Re: Restoration of Euro Heater System?

#14 Post by Dick Weiss » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:01 pm

All; If non-magnetic/metal particles get trapped in the screen, don't drive anymore--it's time for a rebuild.
The OEM oil filter won't trap particles larger than -0,8mm--it wasn't designed to do that. The magnet does it's job
in removing metal particles & yes, a full in-line filter does it's job AFTER the oil pump if you have room for it, or
adding a unit but not showing it in a 100 point concours. The same for the OEM sump plate assembly.
As Al & others mentioned, follow the owner's manual.

PS: There are 2-versions of the screens; The later aluminum screen (w/16mm hole) is coarser than the early steel screen w/15mm hole
which can be reshaped to fit the 16mm oil pickup tube. I just did 2- of 'em on engines being serviced.
I've re-flattened many sump plates over the years and being careful when evenly tightening the 6mm nuts w/proper washers,
(NOT @ 12lbs., AL), and all 10 studs should be solidly mounted (& sealed if needed), no leaks will follow.

Dick

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jim nelson
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Re: Restoration of Euro Heater System?

#15 Post by jim nelson » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:16 am

Al Zim wrote:Your only real solution is replacing the complete heater system with the American ( rest of world) system. It will be expensive to find European heater parts and they will all be very old! al zim

Replacement heat exchangers are available, both from the factory and reproductions. They are expensive, though.

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