Scottsdale auctions

[C J Murray]

The "matching numbers" situation places such a high premium on those cars that it is absolutely certain that many of those numbers are counterfeit. Forging the numbers on the engine and transmission is almost the perfect crime. Who would shine a light on this crime? Once the buyer owns the car his attention is not on verifying those numbers. If the buyer does discover a fraud his choice is to pay giant legal fees and destroy the value of the car or to just sell the car and let the buyer beware. Morality is variable, especially when six figures is involved.

I do not and will not place extra value on matching numbers. That might make me more likely to buy but not a reason to pay more than a non-matching car.

While we are on the subject...have you seen the Speedster that Willhoit is doing a crash repair to? Is that still a Porsche? If it has matching engine and trans does that make it more valuable?

[Vic Skirmants]

The "matching numbers" situation places such a high premium on those cars that it is absolutely certain that many of those numbers are counterfeit. Forging the numbers on the engine and transmission is almost the perfect crime. Who would shine a light on this crime? Once the buyer owns the car his attention is not on verifying those numbers. If the buyer does discover a fraud his choice is to pay giant legal fees and destroy the value of the car or to just sell the car and let the buyer beware. Morality is variable, especially when six figures is involved.

I do not and will not place extra value on matching numbers. That might make me more likely to buy but not a reason to pay more than a non-matching car.

While we are on the subject...have you seen the Speedster that Willhoit is doing a crash repair to? Is that still a Porsche? If it has matching engine and trans does that make it more valuable?

Only if it has the correct cheeseheads.

[Jim Liberty]

My near perfect numbers/date matching early MFI '73, 911 hammered at $90K. Nut and bolt restoration, Slate grey/red, incorrect colors. Could not bring myself to paint it Sepia. Would a lousy, correct paint job have made a difference. ........................Jim.

[Ned Hamlin]

I just returned from Scottsdale where Vic and I looked at an offered '62 cab. It appeared to be a nice car, but the hood digits were non matching, and the engine lid curiously had no stamped digits under the grill, but it had the correct digits stamped on the latch. Problem is, Karmann cars have the numbers on the latch, not Reutter's. The digits matched the chassis # & looked correctly stamped, so the lid looked like it had to come from a Karmann car, maybe a notch with the same last digits (?) Very perplexing. The car came with a normal engine, but it has a Super installed, along with the "S" badge.

The Pre-A's at RM and I believe at Gooding were restored by the same restorer, and all were bought by a German buyer and are headed back to the Motherland. He paid premium prices for not-so-correct, non-matching cars due to the exchange rate. I talked to him, and he didn't appear too knowledgable about 356's, but he bought everything he could get his hands on. He paid $200k for the dreadful red Speedster.

Based on my past years at the auctions, it appeared that the second and third rate cars were here, and my guess is that the good cars are headed for Amelia Island. Adam is right; these were not investment grade cars. We were hoping we could find one, but we came back empty handed save for a cool Alfa Giulietta Berlina T.I.

[C J Murray]

Yes, it would bring more in the original color. I understand the original color thing in so much as that is a choice not something that is forced on the owner/restorer/buyer and originality is verifiable. You can't paint a brown car grey and tell him he is looking at a brown car if the buyer wants a matching paint car. Porsche did sell a lot of brown cars and nice ones are rare today so there must be a buyer for brown. It's fair to guess that you lost money on that one. Sorry about that.

[Jim Liberty]

I agree CJ. I restored the car for myself to keep. I hated it after a couple of trips to Monterey. Soooo off it went. No regrets at all. ............Jim.

[Wes Bender]

I'm with you, Jim. After '65 they tended to get a little "plasticky". I had a new '66 912 and, while I loved the 5-speed gearbox, it didn't have the 356 "feel" to it.

Shame that two interested buyers didn't collide at the auction and give you a better return on your investment in time and money.

[Jim Liberty]

Wes, not a 356 is right on. These early 911s sound like they are going a top speed when turning 3500 RPM. And they aren't making and HP or torque until 4500. My Bugeye is way more fun. ............Jim.

[Jack Walter]

Did anyone look at the 1956 Carrera #56118 that was offered at the Bonham's sale? It looks like it was listed for $750K-$900K but didn't sell.

http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/24452/l ... 120&page=1

Its only 35 chassis numbers after mine.

[Alan Hall]

[quote="Ned Hamlin"]
The Pre-A's at RM and I believe at Gooding were restored by the same restorer, and all were bought by a German buyer and are headed back to the Motherland. He paid premium prices for not-so-correct, non-matching cars due to the exchange rate. I talked to him, and he didn't appear too knowledgable about 356's, but he bought everything he could get his hands on. He paid $200k for the dreadful red Speedster.

I went to Phx to look at some of the cars at it was so odd to have four '53 Cabs up for auction at the same time. The '53 Cab at Gooding was, in my view, far and away a better restoration and more complete and correct than the ones at RM Sotheby's, but did not sell for that much more than the others. On the subject of engine numbers here is a photo of the engine number on the Pasha red Cab at Sotheby's. I think the write-up called it matching.....well the number itself matched I guess. Maybe that NU meant they used a NU (new) case!

[Sean M Rooks]

I'm with you, Jim. After '65 they tended to get a little "plasticky". I had a new '66 912 and, while I loved the 5-speed gearbox, it didn't have the 356 "feel" to it.

Shame that two interested buyers didn't collide at the auction and give you a better return on your investment in time and money.

I keep perusing ads and auctions for early 911s and 912s thinking it'd be nice to have one, but every time I look closer I see details that seem less solid or less refined than in the 356. It reminds me how much I love these cars.

That said slate gray and red sure look good on a 901 body.

[Martin Benade]

Alan, are the case bolts and case painted silver, or is that just how it looks in that picture?

[Greg Bryan]

I drove a 912 for many years and sold it when I bought my 356SC. I like the 356 a lot, but I also liked the 912 - yeah, it's a different car, but a nice drive. I put my money where my mouth is and recently bought another 912 - an August '65 Sunroof project. It's not numbers matching so anything goes. I plan to have fun with it. Another reason I wanted a coupe is that I've already had at least two lifetimes worth of sun and the cabriolet, while fun, should only be taken is small doses here in SoCal.

[Alan Hall]

Martin, I don't recall it looking like it had been painted silver, I think it is just the photo.
Alan

[William Block]

Is there any evidence #56118 is an actual Carrera? It's not listed by Sprenger in the "definitive" Carrera The Porsche Carrera-Motor and the Early Years of Porsche Motor Sports From the 356A and the 550 Spyder To the 904 Carrera GTS. Rather than natter on about the loss of value given a non original engine (which it admittedly has) or a color change, what's the cost of a recreation?
bill block